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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Apr 8, 2015 21:26:39 GMT -5
Finarvyn posted this quite some time ago and I believe that it is worth a second look.
Dec 6, 2007 at 3:24pm
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 8, 2015 22:14:59 GMT -5
What levels are you talking about as high level? We generally retired PCs at about levels 8-10.
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Post by tetramorph on Apr 9, 2015 17:37:03 GMT -5
Yes, Crimhthan The Great, I really like this. Especially the points about how it needs to be on an epic scale, and there need to be intelligent villains who learn and don't fight fair. Excellent.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 9, 2015 20:29:16 GMT -5
Yes, Crimhthan The Great, I really like this. Especially the points about how it needs to be on an epic scale, and there need to be intelligent villains who learn and don't fight fair. Excellent. Yeah, I need to give Fin an Exalt for it!
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Post by makofan on Apr 10, 2015 10:43:46 GMT -5
Rambling musings about high level campaigns I have run (NOTE: All of these started from level 1)
In high school, I ran AD&D 1st edition. It was once per week after school, Grades 11 and 12. Once players hit about level 8, I gace them a world-saving defeat-the-Dark -Lord quest. They completed this at about levels 10-12 (highest was a 12th level ranger). We then ended the campaign
In college, I ran AD&D 1st edition. Our group was set in CSIO and Wilderlands Map 1. The players hit level 14/15, then decided to take on Demogorgon. That ended the campaign.
in BECMI (Mentzer), I ran a campaign in Mystara where the players got up to level 11/12 before real life broke it up. One player was a Dervish, cleric of Al Kalim from Ylaruam, and had stated his intention to pursue immortality. Unfortunately we never got to play this out
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Post by ffilz on Apr 21, 2015 17:52:10 GMT -5
My High School AD&D campaign got to high levels. I'm not quite sure how high the actual PCs got (I have a bit of character information for some of my "GMPCs", one of which reached 16th level, so the actual PCs must have reached commensurate levels). I know the two fighters who were brothers set up a castle, but that was just a sideline to adventuring. Much of the campaign had been module play, though by the end, they were back to my home brew dungeon. The game never shifted into any kind of epic or domain play.
I think I'd rather see a shift to domain play than epic play though.
Frank
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Post by tetramorph on Apr 21, 2015 17:58:34 GMT -5
I think I'd rather see a shift to domain play than epic play though. I get what you mean, and I agree with you. But I think in 0e domain play is epic play. A 12HD FM is epic! Especially leading an army.
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Post by ffilz on Apr 21, 2015 18:03:42 GMT -5
I think I'd rather see a shift to domain play than epic play though. I get what you mean, and I agree with you. But I think in 0e domain play is epic play. A 12HD FM is epic! Especially leading an army. I should clarify the difference I mean between epic play and domain play. Domain play to me is engaging in the campaign world, while epic play is inventing more "epic" threats. The difference I guess to me is that domain play doesn't change the landscape for low level characters, while epic threats change the world to maybe no longer being an interesting place for low level characters to adventure. In Makofan's Verbosh campaign, there is domain play going on, but there's room for a new party of 1st level PCs to form and go find adventure, and not be swept aside by some epic threat. If an epic monster starts threatening the campaign world, what would that imply to low level adventurers? Now maybe it can all work out, though the only games I've seen where epic play was reached were campaigns with only a single play group. Frank
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Post by hengest on Mar 10, 2021 20:05:32 GMT -5
I get what you mean, and I agree with you. But I think in 0e domain play is epic play. A 12HD FM is epic! Especially leading an army. I should clarify the difference I mean between epic play and domain play. Domain play to me is engaging in the campaign world, while epic play is inventing more "epic" threats. The difference I guess to me is that domain play doesn't change the landscape for low level characters, while epic threats change the world to maybe no longer being an interesting place for low level characters to adventure. In Makofan's Verbosh campaign, there is domain play going on, but there's room for a new party of 1st level PCs to form and go find adventure, and not be swept aside by some epic threat. If an epic monster starts threatening the campaign world, what would that imply to low level adventurers? Now maybe it can all work out, though the only games I've seen where epic play was reached were campaigns with only a single play group. Frank Interested in this thread. The Order of the Stick addresses some of this, in a controlled fictional game sort of way. Mid-high (not epic) level adventurers swept into an epic-level threat that they aren't really at a power level to deal with (maybe through diplomacy and planning, dealing with gods, etc., but not at the level of defeating anyone). If an epic monster threatens the campaign world, I suppose low-level adventurers might have a field day for a while (as the resources of the law might be directed elsewhere or spread pretty thing). If it destroys the campaign world, then yeah, the low-level folks are not going to have much to do for a while. Seems an epic threat could be defined as an existential threat to the present order of things (political, imperial, magical) without threatening the existence of the world itself or the lives of every single person in it. So there might be - campaign play
- domain play (diplomacy, creating and maintaining domains, whatever)
- epic play (threatens the assumptions of domain play, but probably doesn't step too hard on campaign play except in certain places)
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 11, 2021 2:34:32 GMT -5
Seems an epic threat could be defined as an existential threat to the present order of things (political, imperial, magical) without threatening the existence of the world itself or the lives of every single person in it. So there might be - campaign play
- domain play (diplomacy, creating and maintaining domains, whatever)
- epic play (threatens the assumptions of domain play, but probably doesn't step too hard on campaign play except in certain places)
This is what I agree with and what makes sense to me. In fact, it seems to me that domain play would tend to lead inevitably to epic play periodically. I believe a study of real world history leads to that conclusion. Genghis Khan destroyed everything for those who opposed him and for those who surrendered immediately, it was business as usual - especially for ordinary people. In fact, if you did not oppose him, your life got better. The view that ffilz espouses is just the continually escalating power creep of Movies and Comic Books where everything is about the end of the world. To me that way is about lack of imagination and a negative view of your audience. You can create all of the emotions in your audience that creates immersion, without going the progression of end of the world, end of the solar system, end of the galaxy, end of many galaxies, end of the universe. That progression always fails in the end because you paint yourself in a corner. Where you method can continue indefinitely on a never ending roller coaster.
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Post by mao on Apr 8, 2021 6:27:24 GMT -5
Epic Level for my players is 7th
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