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Post by mormonyoyoman on May 22, 2018 21:36:12 GMT -5
I now have this new game in my head, one that sounds much better than the one that I came here exploring. One that isn't purchased with money, but with time and experience.
I look forward to more postings here  This truly needs an exalt. Somebody remind me tomorrow when I get to my Big Boy computer. |
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Post by True Black Raven on May 24, 2018 20:03:29 GMT -5
Have an Exalt @chirinebakal for all that you have done and all that you do! You are someone to ride the river with. Thank you again for your kind words. My gaming life has been pretty miserable for the past couple of years, with the last six months being particularly wretched. I've been getting kicked by people for what I do, what I like, and what I believe in; I have been told, in as many words, that I am not welcome in the modern gaming hobby. Yesterday was one of the worst days I've ever had in gaming, and I suspect it's meant the end of my connection with some very old friends and their game group. It's also meant that the FLGS is not getting sales from us; I passed on buying some some figures today, about $90 worth, because of this kind of thing. You are welcome! Thanks for all you do in the old school community and sorry that some of your friends may turn out to be less than you thought they were. |
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Post by robkuntz on May 25, 2018 6:40:53 GMT -5
... rolegaming, like so many of the good things, is fated to be a missed opportunity for advancement of an art/science/skill. Another innovation in which long term gain is sacrificed for short term profits? "Like resilience, self-organization is often sacrificed for purposes of short-term productivity and stability. Productivity and stability are the usual excuses for turning creative human beings into mechanical adjuncts to production processes." – Donella H. Meadows, Thinking in Systems |
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Post by robkuntz on May 26, 2018 9:38:10 GMT -5
Related Subject:
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 12:16:28 GMT -5
You are welcome! Thanks for all you do in the old school community and sorry that some of your friends may turn out to be less than you thought they were. Thanks again for your kindness! Um, if I may, I think I need to clarify something. I am not, nor - to the best of my knowledge - ever been part of 'the OSR community'. I have been told, by some of the self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', that I am neither part of or particularly welcome in any such thing. This seems to be because I present observational experiences of my game play with Ye Olde Guys (Dave, 1975-1985; Phil, 1976-1988; Gary, 1980-1984) that contradicts or is not aligned with what - to me - appears to be a new 'mythology' or 'received wisdom' of how RPGs are supposed to have been played Back In The Day, and how 'OSR' games much more accurately replicate their style of game. I've dipped my toe into the waters of the OSR, and sad to say quite a few people in it are some of the most ignorant and obnoxious people I've ever had the misfortune to meet in the forty+ years I've been in fandom and gaming. I've found that while there are some really great and creative people in the OSR, the nasty ones tend to obscure their good works. Which is why I generally no longer participate in the various Internet forums and sites that I used to; I can either spend time there, mired in pointless disputes, or get on with my writing and building. I am still posting to the huge thread on the RPGsite as a courtesy to the people who ask me questions, but once interest dies so will that thread. I will be continuing with my blog, and my on-line videos, but over the past four years I have become less and less convinced that being on the Internet is of use to either myself or anyone else. I have been made to feel very unwelcome in today's 'gaming hobby', and while I can certainly respect people's beliefs and feelings I have been told (in as many words) that mine (and my Missus' too, for that matter) are not going to be. No problem. There are plenty of other seas to fish in, and I've another 150,000 words to write. Thanks again! |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 13:04:13 GMT -5
The problem with the OSR that I see (besides not liking to be contradicted) is that they focus exclusively on the mechanical, not the conceptual. Kind of like the Pharisees in John's Gospel.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 13:42:32 GMT -5
The problem with the OSR that I see (besides not liking to be contradicted) is that they focus exclusively on the mechanical, not the conceptual. Kind of like the Pharisees in John's Gospel.
Agreed. There seems to be almost an obsession with game mechanics, trying to legislate how game play 'Must Have Been', obscuring just how we played our games back in the day. I think my issue is that I'm the opposite - I am much more interested in concept and much less on mechanics. Which may be why I prefer to run Braunsteins, these days. |
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Post by Admin Pete on May 26, 2018 13:48:20 GMT -5
You are welcome! Thanks for all you do in the old school community and sorry that some of your friends may turn out to be less than you thought they were. Thanks again for your kindness! Um, if I may, I think I need to clarify something. I am not, nor - to the best of my knowledge - ever been part of 'the OSR community'. I have been told, by some of the self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', that I am neither part of or particularly welcome in any such thing. This seems to be because I present observational experiences of my game play with Ye Olde Guys (Dave, 1975-1985; Phil, 1976-1988; Gary, 1980-1984) that contradicts or is not aligned with what - to me - appears to be a new 'mythology' or 'received wisdom' of how RPGs are supposed to have been played Back In The Day, and how 'OSR' games much more accurately replicate their style of game. I've dipped my toe into the waters of the OSR, and sad to say quite a few people in it are some of the most ignorant and obnoxious people I've ever had the misfortune to meet in the forty+ years I've been in fandom and gaming. I've found that while there are some really great and creative people in the OSR, the nasty ones tend to obscure their good works. Which is why I generally no longer participate in the various Internet forums and sites that I used to; I can either spend time there, mired in pointless disputes, or get on with my writing and building. I am still posting to the huge thread on the RPGsite as a courtesy to the people who ask me questions, but once interest dies so will that thread. I will be continuing with my blog, and my on-line videos, but over the past four years I have become less and less convinced that being on the Internet is of use to either myself or anyone else. I have been made to feel very unwelcome in today's 'gaming hobby', and while I can certainly respect people's beliefs and feelings I have been told (in as many words) that mine (and my Missus' too, for that matter) are not going to be. No problem. There are plenty of other seas to fish in, and I've another 150,000 words to write. Thanks again! @chirinebakal , when many of us say "old school community" we are talking about the community defined by the way that you and Michael and Greg and Rob and Dave and Phil and Gary etc played bitd. I don't think of myself as being part of the OSR and the OSR has all types of people and as you said some of them are really great and creative people. This forum was created specifically to serve those like yourself and those that want to learn from those like yourself. This forum was created to focus on play and house rules and home brew and sharing ideas. Anyone who tells you or implies that you are not welcome, those folks are not what this forum is about, there are plenty of places for them. If it is all right some of us would like to ask more questions of you and Michael and Greg and Rob as your time permits and learn from you. To be clear, if anyone is making you feel unwelcome let me and/or mormonyoyoman and/or makofan know about it, preferably all three of us. |
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Post by Admin Pete on May 26, 2018 13:52:06 GMT -5
The problem with the OSR that I see (besides not liking to be contradicted) is that they focus exclusively on the mechanical, not the conceptual. Kind of like the Pharisees in John's Gospel.
Agreed. There seems to be almost an obsession with game mechanics, trying to legislate how game play 'Must Have Been', obscuring just how we played our games back in the day. I think my issue is that I'm the opposite - I am much more interested in concept and much less on mechanics. Which may be why I prefer to run Braunsteins, these days. In live face to face gaming, I run it as rule and mechanics free as I can. I find that players can, even these days, buy into that and the game can be a roller-coaster ride of chills, thrills and spills. |
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Post by robkuntz on May 26, 2018 15:50:06 GMT -5
C53: D&D was initially an ongoing idea. It ceased being an ongoing idea when it became a strictly marketed desire.
© RJKuntz, A NEIGD,
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Post by True Black Raven on May 26, 2018 16:39:57 GMT -5
You are welcome! Thanks for all you do in the old school community and sorry that some of your friends may turn out to be less than you thought they were. Thanks again for your kindness! Um, if I may, I think I need to clarify something. I am not, nor - to the best of my knowledge - ever been part of 'the OSR community'. I have been told, by some of the self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', that I am neither part of or particularly welcome in any such thing. SNIP SNIP I have been made to feel very unwelcome in today's 'gaming hobby', and while I can certainly respect people's beliefs and feelings I have been told (in as many words) that mine (and my Missus' too, for that matter) are not going to be. No problem. There are plenty of other seas to fish in, and I've another 150,000 words to write. Thanks again! No need to explain, as our Admin said, there are many of us here that do not think OSR when we speak of the old school community. As for those "self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', my pa always told me that you never need to toot your own horn, if you are doing something worth noting others will blow the horn for you. (to which your response should be modesty and keep doing a good job) If they don't accept you, you must be doing something right.  There are a lot of people these days who spend a lot of time insisting that you respect their beliefs and feelings while also insisting that your beliefs and feelings are not worthy of respect. I try to stay away from those people. While I am a member a number of places, I hang out here for that very reason. Have another Exalt, this one is for your Missus. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on May 27, 2018 14:58:01 GMT -5
Thanks again for your kindness! Um, if I may, I think I need to clarify something. I am not, nor - to the best of my knowledge - ever been part of 'the OSR community'. I have been told, by some of the self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', that I am neither part of or particularly welcome in any such thing. This seems to be because I present observational experiences of my game play with Ye Olde Guys (Dave, 1975-1985; Phil, 1976-1988; Gary, 1980-1984) that contradicts or is not aligned with what - to me - appears to be a new 'mythology' or 'received wisdom' of how RPGs are supposed to have been played Back In The Day, and how 'OSR' games much more accurately replicate their style of game. I've dipped my toe into the waters of the OSR, and sad to say quite a few people in it are some of the most ignorant and obnoxious people I've ever had the misfortune to meet in the forty+ years I've been in fandom and gaming. I've found that while there are some really great and creative people in the OSR, the nasty ones tend to obscure their good works. Which is why I generally no longer participate in the various Internet forums and sites that I used to; I can either spend time there, mired in pointless disputes, or get on with my writing and building. I am still posting to the huge thread on the RPGsite as a courtesy to the people who ask me questions, but once interest dies so will that thread. I will be continuing with my blog, and my on-line videos, but over the past four years I have become less and less convinced that being on the Internet is of use to either myself or anyone else. I have been made to feel very unwelcome in today's 'gaming hobby', and while I can certainly respect people's beliefs and feelings I have been told (in as many words) that mine (and my Missus' too, for that matter) are not going to be. No problem. There are plenty of other seas to fish in, and I've another 150,000 words to write. Thanks again! @chirinebakal , when many of us say "old school community" we are talking about the community defined by the way that you and Michael and Greg and Rob and Dave and Phil and Gary etc played bitd. I don't think of myself as being part of the OSR and the OSR has all types of people and as you said some of them are really great and creative people. This forum was created specifically to serve those like yourself and those that want to learn from those like yourself. This forum was created to focus on play and house rules and home brew and sharing ideas. Anyone who tells you or implies that you are not welcome, those folks are not what this forum is about, there are plenty of places for them. If it is all right some of us would like to ask more questions of you and Michael and Greg and Rob as your time permits and learn from you. To be clear, if anyone is making you feel unwelcome let me and/or mormonyoyoman and/or makofan know about it, preferably all three of us. Though I came to "Old School" gaming via the OSR & have not had the issues you have had @chirinebakal, though I've grown wary of cliquism in it. I rarely post on Dragonsfoot as I've seen some outright toxic behavior over there. That said I love Ruins of Murkhill because I can read posts by people like you, robkuntz, @gronanofsimmerya & mormonyoyoman. I know that I am not alone in wanting to learn about how you all gamed not only back in the day but today, which is why I follow your blog. Let's put it this way if ANYONE here tries to make you feel unwelcome go to the mods & frankly I'll report it to them if I see it. I am looking forward to your posts as I said on one of your recent blog posts. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 13:06:52 GMT -5
@chirinebakal , when many of us say "old school community" we are talking about the community defined by the way that you and Michael and Greg and Rob and Dave and Phil and Gary etc played bitd. I don't think of myself as being part of the OSR and the OSR has all types of people and as you said some of them are really great and creative people. This forum was created specifically to serve those like yourself and those that want to learn from those like yourself. This forum was created to focus on play and house rules and home brew and sharing ideas. Anyone who tells you or implies that you are not welcome, those folks are not what this forum is about, there are plenty of places for them. If it is all right some of us would like to ask more questions of you and Michael and Greg and Rob as your time permits and learn from you. To be clear, if anyone is making you feel unwelcome let me and/or mormonyoyoman and/or makofan know about it, preferably all three of us. Thank you for your comments! Your definition of the OSR, while a very good one, is not the definition that I was quoted back when I started looking at modern gaming a few years ago. Not that I worry too much about that; it's a big tent. Feel free to ask any questions you want. I'll keep that in mind. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 13:08:43 GMT -5
No need to explain, as our Admin said, there are many of us here that do not think OSR when we speak of the old school community. As for those "self-described 'standard-bearers of the OSR', my pa always told me that you never need to toot your own horn, if you are doing something worth noting others will blow the horn for you. (to which your response should be modesty and keep doing a good job) If they don't accept you, you must be doing something right. There are a lot of people these days who spend a lot of time insisting that you respect their beliefs and feelings while also insisting that your beliefs and feelings are not worthy of respect. I try to stay away from those people. While I am a member a number of places, I hang out here for that very reason. Have another Exalt, this one is for your Missus. Understood, and agreed. Which is why I do so little gaming, these days. Thanks - I'll pass that along. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 13:11:13 GMT -5
Though I came to "Old School" gaming via the OSR & have not had the issues you have had @chirinebakal , though I've grown wary of cliquism in it. I rarely post on Dragonsfoot as I've seen some outright toxic behavior over there. That said I love Ruins of Murkhill because I can read posts by people like you, robkuntz , @gronanofsimmerya & mormonyoyoman . I know that I am not alone in wanting to learn about how you all gamed not only back in the day but today, which is why I follow your blog. Let's put it this way if ANYONE here tries to make you feel unwelcome go to the mods & frankly I'll report it to them if I see it. I am looking forward to your posts as I said on one of your recent blog posts. Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on May 28, 2018 13:18:53 GMT -5
Times change; people don't.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on May 28, 2018 23:23:00 GMT -5
Though I came to "Old School" gaming via the OSR & have not had the issues you have had @chirinebakal , though I've grown wary of cliquism in it. I rarely post on Dragonsfoot as I've seen some outright toxic behavior over there. That said I love Ruins of Murkhill because I can read posts by people like you, robkuntz , @gronanofsimmerya & mormonyoyoman . I know that I am not alone in wanting to learn about how you all gamed not only back in the day but today, which is why I follow your blog. Let's put it this way if ANYONE here tries to make you feel unwelcome go to the mods & frankly I'll report it to them if I see it. I am looking forward to your posts as I said on one of your recent blog posts. Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. It is sad that you have gone through that. Some people get inflated egos thus mistreat others out a false sense superiority. Of course it gets old, when these kind of people seem to overpopulate the community. I am 45yo and I missed out on OD&D, Arneson, Hargrave, M.A.R. Barker & other elder statesmen's contributions but I was always drawn to their works and always wished that I had gotten a chance to play them and meet and game with their creators. So as I said I love this place since I can tap into some of that wisdom via like likes of you @chirinebakal, robkuntz & the others. |
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Post by Admin Pete on May 28, 2018 23:49:44 GMT -5
@chirinebakal , when many of us say "old school community" we are talking about the community defined by the way that you and Michael and Greg and Rob and Dave and Phil and Gary etc played bitd. I don't think of myself as being part of the OSR and the OSR has all types of people and as you said some of them are really great and creative people. This forum was created specifically to serve those like yourself and those that want to learn from those like yourself. This forum was created to focus on play and house rules and home brew and sharing ideas. Anyone who tells you or implies that you are not welcome, those folks are not what this forum is about, there are plenty of places for them. If it is all right some of us would like to ask more questions of you and Michael and Greg and Rob as your time permits and learn from you. To be clear, if anyone is making you feel unwelcome let me and/or mormonyoyoman and/or makofan know about it, preferably all three of us. Thank you for your comments! Your definition of the OSR, while a very good one, is not the definition that I was quoted back when I started looking at modern gaming a few years ago. Not that I worry too much about that; it's a big tent. Feel free to ask any questions you want. I'll keep that in mind. Yeah, I would not worry about anything that gatekeepers say, especially if it excludes the way Dave Arneson and his contemporaries played. Thank you for being open to questions. |
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Post by Admin Pete on May 28, 2018 23:56:53 GMT -5
Though I came to "Old School" gaming via the OSR & have not had the issues you have had @chirinebakal , though I've grown wary of cliquism in it. I rarely post on Dragonsfoot as I've seen some outright toxic behavior over there. That said I love Ruins of Murkhill because I can read posts by people like you, robkuntz , @gronanofsimmerya & mormonyoyoman . I know that I am not alone in wanting to learn about how you all gamed not only back in the day but today, which is why I follow your blog. Let's put it this way if ANYONE here tries to make you feel unwelcome go to the mods & frankly I'll report it to them if I see it. I am looking forward to your posts as I said on one of your recent blog posts. Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. If you have to tell someone you're the vanguard, you're not IMO. How about we all just do what we do and not worry about whether or not there is a vanguard. How does someone who is not the GM think he has the right to kick anyone out of the game? That is crazy town. No wonder you're tired, that would make anyone tired. |
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Post by True Black Raven on May 31, 2018 11:56:50 GMT -5
Though I came to "Old School" gaming via the OSR & have not had the issues you have had @chirinebakal , though I've grown wary of cliquism in it. I rarely post on Dragonsfoot as I've seen some outright toxic behavior over there. That said I love Ruins of Murkhill because I can read posts by people like you, robkuntz , @gronanofsimmerya & mormonyoyoman . I know that I am not alone in wanting to learn about how you all gamed not only back in the day but today, which is why I follow your blog. Let's put it this way if ANYONE here tries to make you feel unwelcome go to the mods & frankly I'll report it to them if I see it. I am looking forward to your posts as I said on one of your recent blog posts. Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. Cowardly bullies are only in the vanguard of mediocrity. When we were kids you could just punch them in the nose and they would leave you alone. Nowadays you are not allowed to defend yourself in the schoolyard or anywhere else. It does get old, I agree with you. If you can remember when facts meant something, you might be old. If you can remember when we respected our elders, you might be old. If you can remember being taught, "Please", "Thank you", "Yes, Sir", "No Sir", you might be old. If you can remember when there were no participation trophies, you might be old. If you can remember when we were taught to do our best, you might be old If you can remember when our dads taught us fair play and good sportsmanship, you might be old. If you can remember when your word meant something and that was expected, you might be old. Man!!! I'm old!! When did that happen?  |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on May 31, 2018 12:40:11 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. Cowardly bullies are only in the vanguard of mediocrity. When we were kids you could just punch them in the nose and they would leave you alone. Nowadays you are not allowed to defend yourself in the schoolyard or anywhere else. It does get old, I agree with you. If you can remember when facts meant something, you might be old. If you can remember when we respected our elders, you might be old. If you can remember being taught, "Please", "Thank you", "Yes, Sir", "No Sir", you might be old. If you can remember when there were no participation trophies, you might be old. If you can remember when we were taught to do our best, you might be old If you can remember when our dads taught us fair play and good sportsmanship, you might be old. If you can remember when your word meant something and that was expected, you might be old. Man!!! I'm old!! When did that happen? Don't you know it True Black Raven, when I was a kid I was bullied a lot but I eventually learned that if you stood up to them threw a fist even if you lost, you were respected & often left alone afterwards. Now we get punished for it. My dad wasn't around much for those or many positive lessons, but my maternal grandpa was. I was taught all of these things by him for the most part. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on May 31, 2018 13:45:51 GMT -5
Man alive, Raven, I want to steal your Might Be Old list. Be prepared to roll your Save Against Thief.
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Post by robkuntz on May 31, 2018 14:08:54 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm just tired of getting kicked by people who keep telling me that they are the vanguard of gaming. The vast majority of them have no idea of just how long I've been at this, like the guy who kicked me out of the 5e campaign I had been playing in. The rest of the group and the GM then asked me back, with an apology. It still got old, though. Cowardly bullies are only in the vanguard of mediocrity. When we were kids you could just punch them in the nose and they would leave you alone. Nowadays you are not allowed to defend yourself in the schoolyard or anywhere else. It does get old, I agree with you. If you can remember when facts meant something, you might be old. If you can remember when we respected our elders, you might be old. If you can remember being taught, "Please", "Thank you", "Yes, Sir", "No Sir", you might be old. If you can remember when there were no participation trophies, you might be old. If you can remember when we were taught to do our best, you might be old If you can remember when our dads taught us fair play and good sportsmanship, you might be old. If you can remember when your word meant something and that was expected, you might be old. Man!!! I'm old!! When did that happen? Replace all of the "old" endings in your list with "civilized" and that also tells one what change occurred. It has nothing to do with age; it's about attitude. |
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Post by Admin Pete on May 31, 2018 15:50:47 GMT -5
I think I like "civilized" that sounds better than old and is accurate, of course, I am old or at least I feel that way.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on May 31, 2018 17:13:32 GMT -5
I give thee an exalt dear sir robkuntz . |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on May 31, 2018 17:37:20 GMT -5
robkuntz, you may need to Save From Thief too, because I want to make your improvements before I post Raven's wistful nostalgic list. After I steal it from him first.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 18:46:07 GMT -5
The first set of photos from today's D&D game are now up on my blog; more to come.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 3, 2018 22:52:38 GMT -5
The first set of photos from today's D&D game are now up on my blog; more to come. Nice, I commented on the post. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 5, 2018 18:52:35 GMT -5
Sweet photo's!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 17:46:30 GMT -5
Thank you both! This is how I like to play, and what I used to do at CSA sessions back in the day. Now, I don;t have to be out of Coffman at six on Saturdays, or at eleven on Tuesdays! |
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