|
|
Post by robkuntz on May 5, 2018 10:18:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by True Black Raven on May 5, 2018 11:40:49 GMT -5
That is one of the things that makes the game addictive and if you are doing it right the players will always, always want more. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 11:46:11 GMT -5
1) Whoever wrote that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. Also, "My dear Wormwood, it seems to me you need a great many pages to tell a very simple story."
2) We were scared because things were UNKNOWN. Gary, and then you and Gary, used to have us terrified. I'd get done with a Greyhawk session and I'd be wringing wet with sweat. I maintain that the major reason for this being lost is not that referees "aren't doing it right," but that the rules are out there for everyone to read. The Chimera that trapped us in a dead end and that we had to negotiate with was a hell of a lot more scary because we had no idea how many hit dice it had. The unknown is scary; familiarity breeds contempt.
3) I've told the story of how Gary kept the tension racheted up many times, and the usual reaction is that people don't WANT that experience, and say so. They want their PCs to be the stars of a weekly TV show, with a contract for the whole season. We all know the Starship Enterprise isn't REALLY going to be destroyed, and we know Captain Kirk isn't REALLY going to be killed.
Most players don't REALLY want the possibility that their character can die.
|
|
|
|
Post by robkuntz on May 5, 2018 12:15:45 GMT -5
1) Whoever wrote that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. Also, "My dear Wormwood, it seems to me you need a great many pages to tell a very simple story." 2) We were scared because things were UNKNOWN. Gary, and then you and Gary, used to have us terrified. I'd get done with a Greyhawk session and I'd be wringing wet with sweat. I maintain that the major reason for this being lost is not that referees "aren't doing it right," but that the rules are out there for everyone to read. The Chimera that trapped us in a dead end and that we had to negotiate with was a hell of a lot more scary because we had no idea how many hit dice it had. The unknown is scary; familiarity breeds contempt. 3) I've told the story of how Gary kept the tension racheted up many times, and the usual reaction is that people don't WANT that experience, and say so. They want their PCs to be the stars of a weekly TV show, with a contract for the whole season. We all know the Starship Enterprise isn't REALLY going to be destroyed, and we know Captain Kirk isn't REALLY going to be killed. Most players don't REALLY want the possibility that their character can die. Well I am going to quibble a bit. The UNKNOWN does not lead to anything but anxiety; it is how the DM manipulates that anxiety that leads to scaring (or not scaring) a player. There must also be an investiture of the player in his or her PC, that is, they must be immersed to a greater degree in the environment to achieve a reaction of this sort (of not being there but in effect being transported there). One cannot be immersed in game environments to the point of being scared by a game sequence, SO, RULE #! for the DM wishing to achieve this type of immersion, you must ALWAYS take the players out of game contexts, immediately. And one way of doing that is creating respect for the conceptual environment, and that is not achieved without real consequences. like one's PC might die, get captured, turned into undead, etc,. and that these circumstances would be irrevocable, Thus my contention has been with the newer D&D games--they having safe-guarded the PC from death--have also in doing this stripped immersive Fantasy out of the game.. And this is but one MAJOR way that they have done it. |
|
|
|
Post by Crimhthan The Great on May 5, 2018 12:32:18 GMT -5
1) Whoever wrote that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. Also, "My dear Wormwood, it seems to me you need a great many pages to tell a very simple story." 2) We were scared because things were UNKNOWN. Gary, and then you and Gary, used to have us terrified. I'd get done with a Greyhawk session and I'd be wringing wet with sweat. I maintain that the major reason for this being lost is not that referees "aren't doing it right," but that the rules are out there for everyone to read. The Chimera that trapped us in a dead end and that we had to negotiate with was a hell of a lot more scary because we had no idea how many hit dice it had. The unknown is scary; familiarity breeds contempt. 3) I've told the story of how Gary kept the tension racheted up many times, and the usual reaction is that people don't WANT that experience, and say so. They want their PCs to be the stars of a weekly TV show, with a contract for the whole season. We all know the Starship Enterprise isn't REALLY going to be destroyed, and we know Captain Kirk isn't REALLY going to be killed. Most players don't REALLY want the possibility that their character can die.Just the old school players. They REALLY do want that possibility. |
|
|
|
Post by Crimhthan The Great on May 5, 2018 12:33:27 GMT -5
1) Whoever wrote that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. Also, "My dear Wormwood, it seems to me you need a great many pages to tell a very simple story." 2) We were scared because things were UNKNOWN. Gary, and then you and Gary, used to have us terrified. I'd get done with a Greyhawk session and I'd be wringing wet with sweat. I maintain that the major reason for this being lost is not that referees "aren't doing it right," but that the rules are out there for everyone to read. The Chimera that trapped us in a dead end and that we had to negotiate with was a hell of a lot more scary because we had no idea how many hit dice it had. The unknown is scary; familiarity breeds contempt. 3) I've told the story of how Gary kept the tension racheted up many times, and the usual reaction is that people don't WANT that experience, and say so. They want their PCs to be the stars of a weekly TV show, with a contract for the whole season. We all know the Starship Enterprise isn't REALLY going to be destroyed, and we know Captain Kirk isn't REALLY going to be killed. Most players don't REALLY want the possibility that their character can die. Well I am going to quibble a bit. The UNKNOWN does not lead to anything but anxiety; it is how the DM manipulates that anxiety that leads to scaring (or not scaring) a player. There must also be an investiture of the player in his or her PC, that is, they must be immersed to a greater degree in the environment to achieve a reaction of this sort (of not being there but in effect being transported there). One cannot be immersed in game environments to the point of being scared by a game sequence, SO, RULE #! for the DM wishing to achieve this type of immersion, you must ALWAYS take the players out of game contexts, immediately. And one way of doing that is creating respect for the conceptual environment, and that is not achieved without real consequences. like one's PC might die, get captured, turned into undead, etc,. and that these circumstances would be irrevocable, Thus my contention has been with the newer D&D games--they having safe-guarded the PC from death--have also in doing this stripped immersive Fantasy out of the game.. And this is but one MAJOR way that they have done it. Have an EXALT!! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 12:42:26 GMT -5
1) Whoever wrote that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. Also, "My dear Wormwood, it seems to me you need a great many pages to tell a very simple story." 2) We were scared because things were UNKNOWN. Gary, and then you and Gary, used to have us terrified. I'd get done with a Greyhawk session and I'd be wringing wet with sweat. I maintain that the major reason for this being lost is not that referees "aren't doing it right," but that the rules are out there for everyone to read. The Chimera that trapped us in a dead end and that we had to negotiate with was a hell of a lot more scary because we had no idea how many hit dice it had. The unknown is scary; familiarity breeds contempt. 3) I've told the story of how Gary kept the tension racheted up many times, and the usual reaction is that people don't WANT that experience, and say so. They want their PCs to be the stars of a weekly TV show, with a contract for the whole season. We all know the Starship Enterprise isn't REALLY going to be destroyed, and we know Captain Kirk isn't REALLY going to be killed. Most players don't REALLY want the possibility that their character can die. Well I am going to quibble a bit. The UNKNOWN does not lead to anything but anxiety; it is how the DM manipulates that anxiety that leads to scaring (or not scaring) a player. There must also be an investiture of the player in his or her PC, that is, they must be immersed to a greater degree in the environment to achieve a reaction of this sort (of not being there but in effect being transported there). One cannot be immersed in game environments to the point of being scared by a game sequence, SO, RULE #! for the DM wishing to achieve this type of immersion, you must ALWAYS take the players out of game contexts, immediately. And one way of doing that is creating respect for the conceptual environment, and that is not achieved without real consequences. like one's PC might die, get captured, turned into undead, etc,. and that these circumstances would be irrevocable, Thus my contention has been with the newer D&D games--they having safe-guarded the PC from death--have also in doing this stripped immersive Fantasy out of the game.. And this is but one MAJOR way that they have done it. Oh, yes, indeed. I would add, though, that if the referee is trying to create respect for the conceptual environment, the players must be willing to give this respect. Interesting additional point: I was just reading, on another forum, YET AGAIN ANOTHER thread about players dinking with cell phones and other electronic crap while at the table. If a player is distracted they are not immersed, I would say by definition. As my grandfather used to say, "are you here to talk or play cards?" Too many players are TOO casual; they have no real investment in the game, and in turn dilute it for others. |
|
|
|
Post by robkuntz on May 5, 2018 13:05:29 GMT -5
Well I am going to quibble a bit. The UNKNOWN does not lead to anything but anxiety; it is how the DM manipulates that anxiety that leads to scaring (or not scaring) a player. There must also be an investiture of the player in his or her PC, that is, they must be immersed to a greater degree in the environment to achieve a reaction of this sort (of not being there but in effect being transported there). One cannot be immersed in game environments to the point of being scared by a game sequence, SO, RULE #! for the DM wishing to achieve this type of immersion, you must ALWAYS take the players out of game contexts, immediately. And one way of doing that is creating respect for the conceptual environment, and that is not achieved without real consequences. like one's PC might die, get captured, turned into undead, etc,. and that these circumstances would be irrevocable, Thus my contention has been with the newer D&D games--they having safe-guarded the PC from death--have also in doing this stripped immersive Fantasy out of the game.. And this is but one MAJOR way that they have done it. Oh, yes, indeed. I would add, though, that if the referee is trying to create respect for the conceptual environment, the players must be willing to give this respect. Interesting additional point: I was just reading, on another forum, YET AGAIN ANOTHER thread about players dinking with cell phones and other electronic crap while at the table. If a player is distracted they are not immersed, I would say by definition. As my grandfather used to say, "are you here to talk or play cards?" Too many players are TOO casual; they have no real investment in the game, and in turn dilute it for others. Righto. I have covered all such possible measures and circumstances, re: page 59 DATG, which references New Ethos' CH14. Summoning and Sustaining a Fantastic Immersion which is complete as written. People who are munching snacks and kibitzing are not immersed, and this is the usual game fare for a game which is now considered "just another entertainment". |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 14:19:38 GMT -5
Once again, be thou Exalted!
|
|
