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Post by sixdemonbag on Mar 15, 2018 15:14:39 GMT -5
“Rules lawyer” describes a personality trait. Nobody claims to be a “rules lawyer”. Being a “rules lawyer” is system agnostic.
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Post by sixdemonbag on Mar 15, 2018 15:16:10 GMT -5
FWIW, I feel obligated to defend modules. 10-year-old me wasn’t smart enough to know how to play without them.
They were never followed BtB and were just as open as any homebrew campaign I’ve ever played in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 15:25:00 GMT -5
FWIW, I feel obligated to defend modules. 10-year-old me wasn’t smart enough to know how to play without them. They didn’t exist when I started playing the game, at least not as I recall seeing. The first time I saw one, I thought it was a neat idea. Still do. Even if you don’t use a canned adventure, reading someone else’s dungeon or outdoor adventure can give you some new ideas to try out your players. Plus, it’s nice to have a few sitting around in case you unexpectedly need a dungeon for a curse or teleport; or have on hand to run an ad hoc session. |
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Post by sixdemonbag on Mar 15, 2018 15:26:46 GMT -5
FWIW, I feel obligated to defend modules. 10-year-old me wasn’t smart enough to know how to play without them. They didn’t exist when I started playing the game, at least not as I recall seeing. The first time I saw one, I thought it was a neat idea. Still do. Even if you don’t use a canned adventure, reading someone else’s dungeon or outdoor adventure can give you some new ideas to try out your players. Plus, it’s nice to have a few sitting around in case you unexpectedly need a dungeon for a curse or teleport; or have on hand to run an ad hoc session. You always express my thoughts more eloquently than I am able. ... ... ... I hate you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 15:28:53 GMT -5
I do not like using words with good meanings to describe bad things and vice versa. It has been said that Arneson played like a child with his open expansive curiosity driven exploration of possibilities, that to me would be purity/purist. I guess I always used it in the sense of only the rules as written, therefore only the “pure” book rules and nothing else. So, the word always had a negative context to me. Anyway, it was just an idea!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 15:29:51 GMT -5
They didn’t exist when I started playing the game, at least not as I recall seeing. The first time I saw one, I thought it was a neat idea. Still do. Even if you don’t use a canned adventure, reading someone else’s dungeon or outdoor adventure can give you some new ideas to try out your players. Plus, it’s nice to have a few sitting around in case you unexpectedly need a dungeon for a curse or teleport; or have on hand to run an ad hoc session. You always express my thoughts more eloquently than I am able. ... ... ... I hate you. ROTFLMAO ... have an exalt! |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Mar 16, 2018 10:00:04 GMT -5
Oh, I agree with you completely, but the module generations do not. Again, I completely agree, but the module generations do not. No, most forums and blogs are entirely of the closed system variety. This forum seems to be the last outpost of the open system that you describe. I sure haven't found it anywhere else. As I describe in DATG, the module<>rules complicity in and of itself is a closed system interface. It corresponds to the zero-sum model which Arneson vacated to achieve the open systems interface. It is only a very minor, and market oriented, strand of the entire breadth and width available from his concept. My dad did not use modules, so I have never played in a game with one. |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Mar 16, 2018 10:01:20 GMT -5
I liked the term purist before rules lawyer came into come into common use. Gary used “barracks room lawyer” in one of the AD&D books (IIRC) and I heard him use that term at a GenCon. I don't like using the term purist for this and the reason is that purist should be used for that open expansive unlimited game or to use the words from robkuntz IMO the proper use of the word purist should be reserved for To use purist to describe the view stated as Is to confuse purist with narrow mindedness which IMO is where so much of the drive to the railroaded module paradigm comes from is the misuse of language. I do not like using words with good meanings to describe bad things and vice versa. It has been said that Arneson played like a child with his open expansive curiosity driven exploration of possibilities, that to me would be purity/purist. This is interesting, I have never thought of it in that light. It does make a certain kind of sense for purist to be used as a positive thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 17:31:25 GMT -5
For those who insist on using rules as written only, the word "pedant" fits. Perhaps "rules pedant."
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Post by True Black Raven on Mar 17, 2018 8:45:32 GMT -5
For those who insist on using rules as written only, the word "pedant" fits. Perhaps "rules pedant." There is another word that fits, but it is not for polite company. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Mar 17, 2018 9:59:40 GMT -5
For those who insist on using rules as written only, the word "pedant" fits. Perhaps "rules pedant." There is another word that fits, but it is not for polite company. Nor any company. |
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Post by Mr Darke on Mar 21, 2018 11:21:55 GMT -5
I prefer my players to be somewhere in the middle. A good understanding of the rules and practices of the game mixed with some role playing is best for me. I detest hard line rules lawyers and method actors alike.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 11:35:07 GMT -5
"Don't worry about the rules, just tell me what you want to do."
The rules are there only to help the referee adjudicate things. Players should not have to know any rules, except very small bits of information about their own capabilities such as spells.
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Post by robkuntz on Mar 21, 2018 13:26:34 GMT -5
The subtext at my blog reads: "When imagination was the only rule." Step it from there and you basically have the beginning of the LG D&D playtests.
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Post by True Black Raven on Mar 31, 2018 12:47:30 GMT -5
This "Don't worry about the rules, just tell me what you want to do." The rules are there only to help the referee adjudicate things. Players should not have to know any rules, except very small bits of information about their own capabilities such as spells. And QFT even more this The subtext at my blog reads: "When imagination was the only rule." Step it from there and you basically have the beginning of the LG D&D playtests. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Mar 31, 2018 13:48:51 GMT -5
"Rules Lawyer" is just another way of saying "food."
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Post by The Archivist on Mar 31, 2018 14:00:24 GMT -5
"Rules Lawyer" is just another way of saying "food." I think that would take a lot of creative cooking skills and some creative selection of spices to make them edible. Might be more like the directions for preparing carp. To eat carp do the following. Build a big fire and when it burns down to a bed of hot coals take the carp and coat with a thick layer of cow dung. Place these on the hot coals and cover with good clean dirt. Wait five hours and remove the layer of dirt. Fish them out and open each one up and throw away the carp and eat what's left. That's how you prepare carp and it would work for "Rules Lawyers" no doubt. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Mar 31, 2018 14:12:04 GMT -5
And you tell the difference between the Rules Lawyer and the dung - how?
Reminds me of the Texan who walked into the Cannibal Cafe. He was right proud to see "Alaskans - $1.50 a pound; New Jerseyites - 50¢ a pound" so forth, until he came to "Texans - $945.79 a pound." He called a waiter over.
"I see you y'all know to appreciate Texas! Yuh wanna tell the folks why Texans cost so much more?"
The little waiter rolled his eyes upward. "You ever try to clean one of them things?"
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Post by The Archivist on Mar 31, 2018 14:21:33 GMT -5
And you tell the difference between the Rules Lawyer and the dung - how? Reminds me of the Texan who walked into the Cannibal Cafe. He was right proud to see "Alaskans - $1.50 a pound; New Jerseyites - 50¢ a pound" so forth, until he came to "Texans - $945.79 a pound." He called a waiter over. "I see you y'all know to appreciate Texas! Yuh wanna tell the folks why Texans cost so much more?" The little waiter rolled his eyes upward. "You ever try to clean one of them things?"  I always loved that joke. I have heard it at least 50 different ways and it still makes me laugh. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Mar 31, 2018 14:27:12 GMT -5
Replace "Texan" with your favorite snowflake or political view, and you have a universal joke.
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Post by The Archivist on Mar 31, 2018 14:30:06 GMT -5
Replace "Texan" with your favorite snowflake or political view, and you have a universal joke. True, there are songs which can have easily added lyrics on the fly called zipper songs, so these are zipper (universal) jokes. |
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Post by xizallian on Apr 15, 2018 16:58:53 GMT -5
Replace "Texan" with your favorite snowflake or political view, and you have a universal joke. True, there are songs which can have easily added lyrics on the fly called zipper songs, so these are zipper (universal) jokes. |
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Post by colinouchou on Apr 17, 2018 9:47:27 GMT -5
No to Rules Lawyers and Cheaters.
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I always loved that joke. I have heard it at least 50 different ways and it still makes me laugh.
