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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 1:39:05 GMT -5
I am thinking of buying an edition of Traveller in print as I prefer it over PDfs for gaming. So my question is what are your thoughts on "Classic" Traveller, Mongoose's Traveller 1e or 2e or even The Cepheus Engine? I checked out Mongoose's Traveller 1e book via my local library & I frankly liked it, but from what I've read of a PDf of 'the Traveller Book' I also like "Classic Traveller".
I know if I get either edition of Mongoose Traveller or The Cepheus Engine, I can buy any of the numerous supplements still in print or PDF; including 3rd Party ones, like the stuff from Gypsy Knights. That said, I've been moving back towards OD&D & B/X D&D for my fantasy gaming so I am leaning towards a print copy of 'the Traveller Book' as it is $20 & 160 pages - plus it is "Classic" Traveller.
I had been considering the Traveller 5, until I saw the nearly 800 page count & $35 PDf price tag - I am trying to stay away from rules heavy books; unless it compiles a lot of the supplementary material that initially would've been sold separately in previous editions but still that is a lot!
I just want your thoughts as it might nudge me in the right direction in my future purchase.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Feb 21, 2018 10:34:08 GMT -5
Though there's no really bad version of Traveller except T4, you cannot go wrong with the Traveller Book. You don't get the extended, year by year careers but you don't need them. If you eventually want them, they're available.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 12:03:58 GMT -5
I am thinking of buying an edition of Traveller in print as I prefer it over PDfs for gaming. So my question is what are your thoughts on "Classic" Traveller, Mongoose's Traveller 1e or 2e or even The Cepheus Engine? I checked out Mongoose's Traveller 1e book via my local library & I frankly liked it, but from what I've read of a PDf of 'the Traveller Book' I also like "Classic Traveller". Traveller is an amazing game and, has already been stated here, you really can't go wrong with most editions. Here are my brief thoughts. The later the edition, the more entrenched the Third Imperium (3I) within the rules. The 3I is a great and well-developed setting, especially if you're wanting to kickstart a campaign and jump into playing, but if you're looking to forge your very own universe (MTU or my Traveller universe) then you may wish to be aware of this. The '77 edition of three little black books (they also use TLBBs) have no references of any sort to the future implied 3I setting. The '81 edition of the TLBBs has a few easily ignored minor references to 3I. There are other minor variations between these two printings but the main thing I'd point to between them (besides 3I) is the starship combat system. The '81 edition has an easier-to-use starship combat system, particularly if you're short on table space. The '77 edition has a more detailed, realistic starship combat system but you'll need lots of table space along with dry-erase markers or grease pencils, rulers, etc. The Traveller Book is very similar to these two editions and has the advantage over the other of still being in print ... and it includes a couple of adventures. This book is larger and easier to hold than the TLBBs and may be the best buy for you to get started in the game. Click Here To BuyEach version after these moves the 3I forward in the timeline and, much like D&D, adds greater detail to the rules. I'm not a purist, and I like TLBB Traveller, Mongoose Traveller, Cepheus Engine, etc. I like Marc Miller, though, so I'm recommending "The Traveller Book" to you. Cepheus engine is my second reco, especially if you're looking to forge your own game but, to my knowledge, there is no deadtree version yet.
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Post by mao on Feb 21, 2018 12:34:35 GMT -5
Go Classic if your into simplicity, plus just rolling up Chars is a game on it own, but to be fair ,its the only ed I am families with
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 13:02:11 GMT -5
I am thinking of buying an edition of Traveller in print as I prefer it over PDfs for gaming. So my question is what are your thoughts on "Classic" Traveller, Mongoose's Traveller 1e or 2e or even The Cepheus Engine? I checked out Mongoose's Traveller 1e book via my local library & I frankly liked it, but from what I've read of a PDf of 'the Traveller Book' I also like "Classic Traveller". Traveller is an amazing game and, has already been stated here, you really can't go wrong with most editions. Here are my brief thoughts. The later the edition, the more entrenched the Third Imperium (3I) within the rules. The 3I is a great and well-developed setting, especially if you're wanting to kickstart a campaign and jump into playing, but if you're looking to forge your very own universe (MTU or my Traveller universe) then you may wish to be aware of this. The '77 edition of three little black books (they also use TLBBs) have no references of any sort to the future implied 3I setting. The '81 edition of the TLBBs has a few easily ignored minor references to 3I. There are other minor variations between these two printings but the main thing I'd point to between them (besides 3I) is the starship combat system. The '81 edition has an easier-to-use starship combat system, particularly if you're short on table space. The '77 edition has a more detailed, realistic starship combat system but you'll need lots of table space along with dry-erase markers or grease pencils, rulers, etc. The Traveller Book is very similar to these two editions and has the advantage over the other of still being in print ... and it includes a couple of adventures. This book is larger and easier to hold than the TLBBs and may be the best buy for you to get started in the game. Click Here To BuyEach version after these moves the 3I forward in the timeline and, much like D&D, adds greater detail to the rules. I'm not a purist, and I like TLBB Traveller, Mongoose Traveller, Cepheus Engine, etc. I like Marc Miller, though, so I'm recommending "The Traveller Book" to you. Cepheus engine is my second reco, especially if you're looking to forge your own game but, to my knowledge, there is no deadtree version yet. Thank you @piper, for giving me a overview on the differences & your suggestions. I noticed that the Cepheus Engine has yet not been released in POD yet. I'll keep all of this in mind as I move towards making a purchase.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 13:08:18 GMT -5
Thank you @piper , for giving me a overview on the differences & your suggestions. I noticed that the Cepheus Engine has yet not been released in POD yet. I'll keep all of this in mind as I move towards making a purchase. My pleasure. The author of Cepheus Engine announced a POD version was "in the works" about a year ago. Nothing yet, but taking into account the rules are already written? I'd say it shouldn't be too much longer. (famous last words!) And The Traveller Book is both available right now and a proven favorite with Traveller fans.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 13:25:48 GMT -5
Go Classic if your into simplicity, plus just rolling up Chars is a game on it own, but to be fair ,its the only ed I am families with I am leaning towards "Classic" Traveller - as I love that the character gen is like a mini-game in of itself, which is sad that some of the later editions have gotten rid of that element of it. I love sci-fi, but in gaming I've never found a system I really like - even systems I like for fantasy that have a Sci-Fi version (Rolemaster - Spacemaster); their sci-fi rules are often more complex, with a ton of new sub-systems. I am really enjoying White Star White Box RPG & it's simplicity, but even I like a bit more crunch in sci-fi & thus Traveller has really begun to appeal to me. To be completely honest Spacemaster Privateers (SM:P)& HARP SF can be run without the extra books, unlike SM1; but you still got to fuss with a ton of charts for nearly every activity & I am frankly burned out on that type of play. In Traveller I don't see that complication & you only need to add the supplements you desire to fit your campaign & style of play; which I really love. I also love that the core mechanic is 2d6 with a 8+ as the core test, with modifications to be applied if needed.It frees me up as a Referee & potential player to not have to monkey with unneeded rules memorization. I'll likely run White Star White Box RPG for pick up games or those players who prefer to not have to stress over a somewhat more realistic or crunchy ship combat system; but Traveller will likely be my default Space Opera system for those kinds of campaigns.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 13:30:06 GMT -5
Thank you @piper , for giving me a overview on the differences & your suggestions. I noticed that the Cepheus Engine has yet not been released in POD yet. I'll keep all of this in mind as I move towards making a purchase. My pleasure. The author of Cepheus Engine announced a POD version was "in the works" about a year ago. Nothing yet, but taking into account the rules are already written? I'd say it shouldn't be too much longer. (famous last words!) And The Traveller Book is both available right now and a proven favorite with Traveller fans. I'll likely get the Traveller Book in POD format asap & get the Cepheus Engine once it is in print just to have on hand in case what ever group I find prefers that kind of Traveller experience.
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Post by mao on Feb 21, 2018 13:38:39 GMT -5
Go Classic if your into simplicity, plus just rolling up Chars is a game on it own, but to be fair ,its the only ed I am families with I am leaning towards "Classic" Traveller - as I love that the character gen is like a mini-game in of itself, which is sad that some of the later editions have gotten rid of that element of it. I love sci-fi, but in gaming I've never found a system I really like - even systems I like for fantasy that have a Sci-Fi version (Rolemaster - Spacemaster); their sci-fi rules are often more complex, with a ton of new sub-systems. I am really enjoying White Star White Box RPG & it's simplicity, but even I like a bit more crunch in sci-fi & thus Traveller has really begun to appeal to me. To be completely honest Spacemaster Privateers (SM:P)& HARP SF can be run without the extra books, unlike SM1; but you still got to fuss with a ton of charts for nearly every activity & I am frankly burned out on that type of play. In Traveller I don't see that complication & you only need to add the supplements you desire to fit your campaign & style of play; which I really love. I also love that the core mechanic is 2d6 with a 8+ as the core test, with modifications to be applied if needed.It frees me up as a Referee & potential player to not have to monkey with unneeded rules memorization. I'll likely run White Star White Box RPG for pick up games or those players who prefer to not have to stress over a somewhat more realistic or crunchy ship combat system; but Traveller will likely be my default Space Opera system for those kinds of campaigns. Also the Traveler Universe is pretty darn cool, really good aliens and many varieties of Humaniti
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 13:56:37 GMT -5
I am leaning towards "Classic" Traveller - as I love that the character gen is like a mini-game in of itself, which is sad that some of the later editions have gotten rid of that element of it. I love sci-fi, but in gaming I've never found a system I really like - even systems I like for fantasy that have a Sci-Fi version (Rolemaster - Spacemaster); their sci-fi rules are often more complex, with a ton of new sub-systems. I am really enjoying White Star White Box RPG & it's simplicity, but even I like a bit more crunch in sci-fi & thus Traveller has really begun to appeal to me. To be completely honest Spacemaster Privateers (SM:P)& HARP SF can be run without the extra books, unlike SM1; but you still got to fuss with a ton of charts for nearly every activity & I am frankly burned out on that type of play. In Traveller I don't see that complication & you only need to add the supplements you desire to fit your campaign & style of play; which I really love. I also love that the core mechanic is 2d6 with a 8+ as the core test, with modifications to be applied if needed.It frees me up as a Referee & potential player to not have to monkey with unneeded rules memorization. I'll likely run White Star White Box RPG for pick up games or those players who prefer to not have to stress over a somewhat more realistic or crunchy ship combat system; but Traveller will likely be my default Space Opera system for those kinds of campaigns. Also the Traveler Universe is pretty darn cool, really good aliens and many varieties of Humaniti I see that mao, which is part of the reason I am going with Traveller instead of Spacemaster or HARP SF or Starfinder ect. I am horrified that I didn't get it a chance back in the day, especially since I liked GDW's Twilight 2000 & Dark Conspiracy RPGs - a lot of that had to do with I had no group & was more into RIFTS, Cyberpunk 2020 & ICE's Cyberspace back then, plus a flirtation with Shadowrun. As such I just coasted over Traveller; but it didn't help that GDW's games had started adding that stupid playing card NPC mechanic which seemed off-putting to me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 13:58:50 GMT -5
Also the Traveler Universe is pretty darn cool, really good aliens and many varieties of Humaniti Agreed! Marc and his team put together a good setting with lots of adventuring potential.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Feb 21, 2018 15:34:08 GMT -5
The one thing you'd find amusing, especially the further back in time you go (with editions of Traveller, not necessarily physically..not that there's anything wrong with that) would be the rules for shipboard computers. Evidently, they still ran on steam and had only 8k (that's KILOBYTES, not gigs nor even megabytes) and couldn't even conceive of multitasking. First chance you get, pick up a copy of Murphy's Rules from Steve Jackson Games for a collection of some of the most - ahem! - entertaining rules.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 17:33:08 GMT -5
Okay ... with regard to Cepheus Engine, here is the latest. This was posted today by Ian Stead to the G+ CE community. Ian is the artist for the print version (or one of them, perhaps? I'm not clear on that). Emphasis added by yours truly.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 21, 2018 18:47:33 GMT -5
Okay ... with regard to Cepheus Engine, here is the latest. This was posted today by Ian Stead to the G+ CE community. Ian is the artist for the print version (or one of them, perhaps? I'm not clear on that). Emphasis added by yours truly. YES!!! Thanks for the update @piper; I haven't checked out the Cepheus Engine G+ community for a bit.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 22, 2018 15:14:19 GMT -5
Though I'll likely get the Cepheus Engine once it comes out, I am for sure getting the Traveller Book in print ASAP. I did some mock up characters (though I am not sure I did them 100% correct)but I love the character gen for it. I rolled up 6 characters with one fatality - poor marine died first term. I hate reading PDFs if I have the option not to (a lazy eye & I need new glasses - thus not comfortable), so I will buy the print version. Now I just need to play it & then learn the ship & other basics, so I can eventually run it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 16:53:42 GMT -5
Now I just need to play it & then learn the ship & other basics, so I can eventually run it. Classic Traveller actually runs pretty well as a solo game. Your PC team can make some shipping and trading runs and maybe have a starport (shiny side or dirt side) encounter go bad on them. That way you get a feel for running ship movements, ship encounters, trading rules, and combat during the barroom brawl.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 22, 2018 17:12:49 GMT -5
Now I just need to play it & then learn the ship & other basics, so I can eventually run it. Classic Traveller actually runs pretty well as a solo game. Your PC team can make some shipping and trading runs and maybe have a starport (shiny side or dirt side) encounter go bad on them. That way you get a feel for running ship movements, ship encounters, trading rules, and combat during the barroom brawl. Thanks @piper, yeah I was thinking about that possibility as well. Plus I like that if I do run a campaign I could use them as a rival npc group in it. I just need to get it in print so I can sit with my campaign notebook, dice, scratch paper & pencil - detailing npcs, ships & planets. Do you think I need to save up & get a calculator for travel & other computations? I have a cheap one but I'm not sure if I need a better one. I might not need it depending on how hard the math equations are (I suck at math).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 17:30:24 GMT -5
Do you think I need to save up & get a calculator for travel & other computations? I have a cheap one but I'm not sure if I need a better one. I might not need it depending on how hard the math equations are (I suck at math). Does your 'phone have a calculator? That should be enough for any math you can't do in your head or on scratch paper. ETA: any basic 4 function calculator should be plenty.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Feb 22, 2018 23:15:29 GMT -5
Dollar store calculators work fine for Traveller. For original Traveller, any and everything can be done in your head.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 22, 2018 23:48:08 GMT -5
@piper & mormonyoyoman, thanks to you both; that is what I wanted to know.
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Post by ffilz on Mar 4, 2018 18:59:31 GMT -5
I am thinking of buying an edition of Traveller in print as I prefer it over PDfs for gaming. So my question is what are your thoughts on "Classic" Traveller, Mongoose's Traveller 1e or 2e or even The Cepheus Engine? I checked out Mongoose's Traveller 1e book via my local library & I frankly liked it, but from what I've read of a PDf of 'the Traveller Book' I also like "Classic Traveller". Traveller is an amazing game and, has already been stated here, you really can't go wrong with most editions. Here are my brief thoughts. The later the edition, the more entrenched the Third Imperium (3I) within the rules. The 3I is a great and well-developed setting, especially if you're wanting to kickstart a campaign and jump into playing, but if you're looking to forge your very own universe (MTU or my Traveller universe) then you may wish to be aware of this. The '77 edition of three little black books (they also use TLBBs) have no references of any sort to the future implied 3I setting. The '81 edition of the TLBBs has a few easily ignored minor references to 3I. There are other minor variations between these two printings but the main thing I'd point to between them (besides 3I) is the starship combat system. The '81 edition has an easier-to-use starship combat system, particularly if you're short on table space. The '77 edition has a more detailed, realistic starship combat system but you'll need lots of table space along with dry-erase markers or grease pencils, rulers, etc. The Traveller Book is very similar to these two editions and has the advantage over the other of still being in print ... and it includes a couple of adventures. This book is larger and easier to hold than the TLBBs and may be the best buy for you to get started in the game. Click Here To BuyEach version after these moves the 3I forward in the timeline and, much like D&D, adds greater detail to the rules. I'm not a purist, and I like TLBB Traveller, Mongoose Traveller, Cepheus Engine, etc. I like Marc Miller, though, so I'm recommending "The Traveller Book" to you. Cepheus engine is my second reco, especially if you're looking to forge your own game but, to my knowledge, there is no deadtree version yet. 1981 Traveller and The Traveller Book have substantially the same ship combat system. You may be thinking of Starter Traveller which does have a simplified combat system. You can see all the differences between 1977, 1981, The Traveller Book, and Starter Traveller that I am aware of in this document: docs.google.com/document/d/1jsH-EgKvaR0mdbtJMj_Xj7X3TcYyZTqQGf-Gwu58PX0/edit?usp=sharing1981, The Traveller Book, and Starter Traveller are available as individual PDFs on RPGNow/DriveThruRPG, with TTB being available POD. All four versions plus ALL the GDW supplements are available on CD-ROM or USB stick for $35 plus $5 S&H. If you want more material, there is a 443 deal, where you pick 4 CD-ROMs and get rebated $35. Frank
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 19:11:04 GMT -5
I was thinking of the "range band" combat system (I thought was) in the '81 edition as opposed to '77's vector calculation (similar to that in Triplanetary), since the former seems "simpler" to me. It's possible I got those three editions messed up ... '77 Traveller is the only one I'm comfortably familiar with. At any rate? Thanks for the clarification!
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Post by ffilz on Mar 4, 2018 19:31:41 GMT -5
I was thinking of the "range band" combat system (I thought was) in the '81 edition as opposed to '77's vector calculation (similar to that in Triplanetary), since the latter seems "simpler" to me. It's possible I got those three editions messed up ... '77 Traveller is the only one I'm comfortably familiar with. At any rate? Thanks for the clarification! Range band star ship combat came from Starter Traveller. 1977, 1981, and The Traveller Book are all vector. Note that Starter Traveller seems to have almost all of it's text the same as The Traveller Book other than the differences I've noted (there may be some different text in the intro and such). It would be fun to get the text from each version into a flat text file and take various diff tools to it and see how much stuff I missed. I skimmed carefully through Book 1 in writing my comparison and got progressively more casual in my skimming with each subsequent book. Frank
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 19:37:39 GMT -5
Range band star ship combat came from Starter Traveller. 1977, 1981, and The Traveller Book are all vector. Ah, so I was mildly confused then! Thanks for the helping hand. I typically use the range band ship-to-ship combat but I'd been using it so long I'd forgotten where it came from.
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Post by creativehum on Mar 11, 2018 14:32:41 GMT -5
As a side note about the differences between ship-to-ship combat in the 1977 and 1981 editions, note that this passage is from the 1977 edition, p. 37:
Starter Traveller codifies this into a more precise element with the starship combat range-band rules. But the original rules offered a shortcut to get around vector play. It's been there from the beginning. (I find, again and again, I prefer the details and rules found in the 1977 edition.)
As for the differences between Classic Traveller/MgT & CE, I know a lot of people think CT and MgT/CE are essentially the same. I personally don't find this to be the case for a very strong reason: Classic Traveller was inspired by the rules of OD&D and the culture of play of the mid-70s. That is, they depend on a strong Referee making adjudications about how situations, skills, and DMs will apply on an ad hoc basis. Meanwhile, the rules of MgT/CE are more "modern" in that the rules are more codified, with less interpretation required when making rolls.
The "surface details" of each game are wildly similar. But is my belief that the underlying assumptions, and the kind of play that emerges from those assumptions, will be very different.
As for getting a hardcopy of the original LBBs (if one wants to go that route), either 1977 or 1981, one need only print the pages in Booklet format, fold them, and staple them. They have little art (one image in one of the 1977 books), and are sized close enough to 8.5x5.5 that they'll serve quite well.
The PDF of the 1981 rules is available on DriveThruRPG. The 1977 rules are available on the Far Future Enterprises Classic Traveller CD-Rom/Thumbnail.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 12, 2018 0:09:58 GMT -5
I've been considering printing the 77 Traveller & stapling them together. That said I'll likely still get the Cepheus Engine in print once it is out just for the option.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Mar 16, 2018 9:25:43 GMT -5
I've been considering printing the 77 Traveller & stapling them together. That said I'll likely still get the Cepheus Engine in print once it is out just for the option. I would like to get the 77 Traveller, maybe later on.
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