Another End Game: Arbitrage

[tetramorph]

How is this for the "thieves" (and other such types) end-game?

Sea and Land Trade, a.k.a., Arbitrage

Characters may invest in ships or caravans with crews and details in order to engage in profit by means of arbitrage. Arbitrage turns profit by purchasing items common in one location then selling them at a higher price in distant markets where they are rare. The trader “pays” the risk of transport.

Upon arrival for trade at a settlement or port there will be a toll or port fee per week of stay unless the settlement is a part of the character’s own holdings. Toll in 100s gp times: 1d6 village, 2d6 town, 3d6 city. [Note: I have a graded system for settlements with brackets, villages [1-4], towns [5-7] and cities [8-10]. Ask and I will spell that out in another thread!] The abstraction covers stabling, inns, etc.

Per week, the market will have buyers 10% per settlement level (lvls 1-10, see note, above). Character charisma grants 10% per bonus. If there are buyers there are always items for sale. If there are no buyers, roll again same probability that there are items for sell to the character.

Determine the number of items desired for purchase and the number of items for sale, respectively, by rolling 1d6 village, 2d6 town, 3d6 city.

For each item desired or for sale, 1 in 6 the item is magical. Next, 1 in 3 each remaining item is uniquely valuable. All other items will be normal loads of local specialty.

The player keeps track of inventory noting type, encumbrance, cost and location of purchase for each item or load. After determining interest in purchase use the following formula to determine mark-up for each item:

    Mark-up = original purchase price
                    X
                    1d6 % per mile between market and location of origin

Determine worth of items or loads for sale to the character:

Value	roll	encumbrance	example
Normal	1d6 X 1K gp	1:1 gp	textiles, crafts, clothing, food, etc.
Unique	2d6 X 1K gp	1:10 gp	fur, tea, spice, carpet, gems, jewelry, etc.
Magic	3d6 X 1K gp	1:100 gp	magic items, elements, monster, parts, etc.

After determining item’s base value each successive 1 on a d6 increases value 10 times but encumbrance only doubles.

Other means by which traders may turn profit include passenger transport, cargo shipping, smuggling, etc.


The adventure hooks are endless!

[jmccann]

You need a transportation network with costs based on the cost of transport. And don't forget brigands, bandits and pirates.

[captaincrumbcake]

Interesting idea, though.

[tetramorph]

Mar 20, 2016 0:40:54 GMT -5 jmccann said:

You need a transportation network with costs based on the cost of transport. And don't forget brigands, bandits and pirates.

Jmccan, the "brigands, bandits and pirates," are exactly what I imply by "the adventure hooks are endless"!

What do you mean by "transportation network with costs . . . of transport"?

I am assuming the Outdoor Survival board, with major cities just past the boarders. The major transportation networks are the rivers and roads already there, and any canals and roads the PCs build. The "cost" is the risk of encounter in the wilderness, hiring enough wagons, ships, and crew to guard them and to handle the relative encumbrance of the trader's inventory. Also feed and fodder, etc.

The 1d6 % per mile of difference is my attempt to approximate the "cost of transport" as abstractly as possible so that play can concentrate on the ensuing adventures.

What do you think?

[jmccann]

I was thinking of a larger area with a more diverse economy. The per mile part of your idea is one way to represent the costs as you say, which will work well for a uniform area like the OS board. I am not sure about the value of 1d6% though - that seems really high, but I guess it depends on how you view your campaign.

I am thinking about setting up trade routes for Middelsae, with transport oriented around long distance sea routes and short overland routes, so a uniform rule like this won't work. One reasonably simple way to represent this might be a fixed formula for the overland parts of the journey, and then have an area map - I am not thinking of a detailed hex map, more like the Risk map, but with oceans - showing the markup for different sea areas. I'll think about it some more.

[tetramorph]

Okay, jmccann, I see what you mean now.

Perhaps 1d3 % per mile?

I wanted some chance and variation, but I agree that, in this case, a 1-6 spread is a bit too wide.

I like your idea of a Risk - like board in terms of mark up for a larger area.

By having the rate relatively fixed, it encourages the players to take the risk of longer and longer journeys -- allowing more excuses for delays and adventures!

[jmccann]

Let me take a stab at creating a couple of maps, one for the OS board an another for Middelsae.

[jmccann]

I started working on this this morning. I think what I will do is post just an image in this thread with a link to a different thread. I see this as part of an economic model. I have been working on an economic model of Middelsae for months, so I'll post some OS related matter here and have the main post in a different thread.

[jmccann]

I have been working on a couple of maps of the OS board. Now that I have a map I think I like, I am working on a couple of tables to go with the map. I am keeping the OS version very simple - there is a single number which represents the difficulty of transporting across a region. A table is then rolled on to see what bad things happen to a cargo on a specific trip.

More work needs to be done to allow roads to "tunnel" through high transport cost areas with a lowered transport cost. I want to come up with something easy to administer that still results in a detailed model with reasonable results.

I mentioned above that the OS model is very simple - I am working on another model which is less simple and has up to 3 costs associated with transport across each region. These costs are Transport/ Geographical costs, Human Adversary costs and Fantastic costs. The first covers the difficulty of that region's terrain, Human Adversary is groups of marauders like pirates, bandits etc. and Fantastic is for e.g. powerful sorcerers with hordes of minions. There is another map I am working on which is not Middelsae which will use the more detailed costs. I am thinking about how these costs can be used along with Wandering Monster or Event random tables. I am not sure if a more complicated system will really accomplish much more than the simple one.

I have been working on tracing paper so I need to do some scanning and put the images together for the OS board. I found an OS map on Boardgamegeek where someone has removed the town and animal icons. I am using this for the terrain layer. This makes it easier to put together a map with symbols for castles and towns per U&WA. I won't do this now but it would be pretty cool to have the map full sized for printout with nicely drawn town and castle icons.

[jmccann]

Here is the map.  The idea is that each of the larger regions has a "Transport Risk" which will be used to make a roll to see what losses there are to cargo and other bad events.  Trace the path of the players and add up all the Transport Risk points they accumulate.  I'll post a draft of the loss and event tables when I complete them.

[tetramorph]

jmccann, I like it!

Seems a bit more detailed than I need, though, I must admit.

It seems to me the risk is in the cost of handling encumbrance and handling all the random encounters until they get to a place that is lucrative enough to have trade available, and high-end trade at that.

But I love your map!

So keep on posting, I am loving learning from your approach.

[jmccann]

I have posted a better map. There was some leftover graphic treatment from an earlier attempt to define the areas that I have removed.

[jmccann]

I have created a new thread concerning economic models for campaigns here:http://ruinsofmurkhill.proboards.com/thread/741/simple-economic-models-campaigns

I won't post any more in this thread since it is a bit of a derail and I think it is worth its own thread.

[jmccann]

To get back to the thread topic, how do you see this playing out in practice? Suppose there is a character who thinks they can profitably ship some goods to some location. In my mind, to support a merchant character, the economic system should seem more realistic. But I understand the need to keep things simple for referee as well as players.

How would a play session with such a character go? I can see the obvious play possibilities with bandits, difficult terrain, getting lost, resource management and so on during transit, but a lot of the interest for a character like this would depend on what happens in town, and in relationships with others. What happens between caravan trips?

[tetramorph]

jmccann , good points and questions. You've really got me thinking.

My experience comes largely from playing with Jimm's Planet Eris folks. They are old school in the sense that what they want is gold and XP and, in the main, not to feel scummy about how they came by it. So they want to help the helpless. But they really want gold and xp. When I give them role play opportunities (in the interact-with-pc sense) they either a.) kill them b.) parley to trade magic items or c.) ignore them and move on. I have even asked them if they were interested in rumors, more than once, and they always just say: no.

So, I guess I am jaded. My experience with the player of the theif for whom I have devised these rules is that he will want some kind of roll that determines the value of his trade so that it feels like D&D. But basically he wants to make the trade and get back with his cargo to the wilderness to kill some more monsters, take some more treasure, and trade it up.

Happenings in town: distribute gp, calculate XP, resupply, get ready to move on. We just don't really have any adventure in town. Everything is wilderness / lair / dungeon.

Relationships with folks in the towns: did you pay me what you owed me? Did you tell me the truth on a sale? No? You are dead. Yes? See you next time I pass by this place. I'll be sure to remember your name and put in a good word for you with other traders.

Now, this may sound boring to you, or that these guys are daft. But that is not really my experience. They are just serious adventurers -- and by that I mean what I said above: gold, XP, help the down-trodden, don't feel like a scum at the end of it.

I would have fun in a more dynamically dramatic campaign. But, I gotta say, these guy's approach has really grown on me and I have a heck of a lot of fun.

Does that make any sense?

[jmccann]

OK, I see what you need at the tabletop - there can't be a lot of work or time involved in figuring out the circumstances of a trading expedition at the table. That is a constraint that can be worked around. I will think about this and return to the economic model thread.

[hengest]

Mostly just bumping this, as I have nothing wonderful to add to this interesting proposal.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Apr 19, 2022 17:28:04 GMT -5 hengest said:

Mostly just bumping this, as I have nothing wonderful to add to this interesting proposal.

The other thread mentioned above is this one Simple economic models for campaigns. Shame these did not go further. I see this started in March and then late May of 2016. I was too busy to participate as we went to Alaska in June 2016 for our 20th Anniversary trip and I never got back to these threads.