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Post by Admin Pete on Jan 24, 2015 10:08:51 GMT -5
finarvyn started this thread over at DF and I thought I would comment on the books mentioned in that thread that (I think) are relevant to this forum (just for fun). (I know Fin this thread was started in 2008 but I did not join DF until August of 2009 so I just discovered the thread.) Here are the books/novels/series: The Horseclans series by Robert Adams: I loved the concept, enjoyed reading them and have read them several times, although I would love to rewrite about 25% of them and then add another 20 books. The Dune Series by Brian Herbert: I loved the concept, read the first four books and will not re-read them or any of the other books. To tedious for me to pickup after the first read. The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan and completed by Brandon Sanderson: I loved the concept and read all of the books, the only reason I will not re-read it is the amount of time that would take and at this point in my life I would rather read new stuff with that amount of time. The only thing I did not like was in the final book after the climax the wrap-up afterwards I hated that part, it just did not work for me. I don't remember right now how many pages it was something like the last 3 or 4 pages should have been completely re-written IMO. Likely it works for most people, just not for me. Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath by H.P. Lovecraft: Never read this one. Stephen Kings books as a group: I don't really care for Stephen Kings books myself, they just don't work for me. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever, The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson: I loved the concept and read all ten books; however, I will not re-read them because I absolutely from the very beginning hated the character Thomas Covenant and after the first part of the first book I was cheering for him to be killed and someone more worthy to step forward to complete his role in the story. I have not read any more books by this author simply for the fear that his protagonist will be some evil piece of garbage, that I can not identify with or root for. The John Carter of Mars books by ERB: I loved the concept and loved reading them and have read them many times. The only thing I didn't like was the thing with the giant in one of the late books where his son was involved in the writing. To me that will always be a non-canon bit to be ignored. The Star Wars books by Kevin J. Anderson: I have never read any of them. The Elric of Melniboné books by Michael Moorcock: I loved the concept and loved reading the books, I think they are fantastic. The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson: I have never read any of these 10 books. The Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling: I loved the concept and loved the movies, but failed to finish the first book, just could not get into it. The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy by JRR Tolkien: I loved the concept and loved reading the books, I think they are fantastic. I read them the first time when I was 9 or 10 and have read the 7 or 8 times since. The A Game of Thrones series by George R. R. Martin: I have never read any of them. All of E.R. Burroughs books: I loved the concept and loved reading the books, I think they are fantastic. The Ringworld books by Larry Niven: I loved the concept and loved reading the books. The Darkover books by Marion Zimmer Bradley: I loved the concept and loved reading the books. Tros of Samothrace by Talbot Mundy: I loved the concept and loved reading the books. Mahars of Pellucidar by John Eric Holmes: I have never read this book. The Worm Ouroborous by Eric Rücker Eddison: I loved the concept, but found it to be a tough read. Dragonlance books: I have never read any of them. Books by Roger Zelazny: I have loved the concepts and the books that I have read. Maybe I only read the good 50%. Quag Keep by Andre Norton: I loved the concept and loved reading the book. The Ravenloft books: I have never read any of them. Helliconia trilogy by Brian Aldiss: I loved the concept, but found it to be a tough read. The Saga of Pliocene Exile by Julian May: I loved the concept, but found it to be a tough read. The Otherland series by Tad Williams: I have never read any of them. The books by Jack Vance: I loved the concept, have not read very much of them, but loved he Cudgel stories. The Belgariad and the other series by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings(uncredited): I loved the concept and loved reading the books, I think they are fantastic. The Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey: I have never read any of them. That is my take on these, what do you think?
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Post by tetramorph on Jan 25, 2015 16:36:40 GMT -5
I must admit that I find much in "Appendix N" difficult to chew.
I do not usually like fiction (as opposed to nonfiction) and when I do I tend to reread it rather than moving on!
I can't count how many times I've read the Silmarillion!
For example, I am glad I read Vance's "Dying Earth," but it was a slog for me. I can see why folks find it good, but it can't compare to JRRT and CSL, etc., for me.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jan 26, 2015 13:13:12 GMT -5
Some books really are tough to read, but compiling the post above I was struck by how many great books a lot of people found hard to read. I also increased my list of books that I need to track down and read. I try not to compare authors especially when they come from so many different perspectives and places. Like Tolkien and Howard, both fantasy but a completely different strain of fantasy. You can not critique both of them the same way IMO.
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Post by finarvyn on Feb 4, 2015 8:32:03 GMT -5
Jan 24, 2015 9:08:51 GMT -6 The Perilous Dreamer said:
Just thought I'd comment on a couple of these.
Horseclans -- I own the whole set, with perhaps the exception of the collaborative short story books. I've read the first one maybe a half dozen times, the second one maybe three times, books 3 and 4 once or twice, and just can't get much farther. I love the concept, but Adams' writing just doesn't grab me.
John Carter -- the last book of the series should be burned. It's terrible. The writing style is (a) juvenile, and (b) doesn't seem at all like the rest. The author switched from "I did this" mode to "Carter does this" mode.
Star Wars -- Don't bother with Anderson. Read Timothy Zahn. Zahn is basically the only Star Wars author I read and I buy his books in hardback because I re-read them every time I'm in s SW mood. Start with his original Thrawn trilogy and see what you think. Zahn created iconic characters like Mara Jade and iconic places like the name of the capitol planet (Coruscant). How many other non-Lucas writers contributed key elements to the SW universe that folks consider canon?
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 5, 2015 6:13:39 GMT -5
finarvyn I have to second your endorsement of the Zahn STAR WARS novels. Good reading and it feels "right" next to the movies instead of tacked on. Have you read the second batch of Thrawn novels? If so, any thoughts?
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 8, 2015 22:15:56 GMT -5
Just thought I'd comment on a couple of these. John Carter -- the last book of the series should be burned. It's terrible. The writing style is (a) juvenile, and (b) doesn't seem at all like the rest. The author switched from "I did this" mode to "Carter does this" mode. My understanding is Burroughs son wrote most of that last book and Burroughs himself only contributed some notes. For me it is non-canon IMO.
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Post by makofan on Feb 9, 2015 10:42:11 GMT -5
I have read the following:
The Dune Series by Brian Herbert: Book one was OK, as was the third. Not my cup of tea, and didn't really inspire me at all
Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath by H.P. Lovecraft: This one, and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, are my favourite Lovecraft. Dreamquest is very Dunsany-ish. You sort of cruise through in tourism mode noting neat locations.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever, The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson: Suffered through the first series (it was a present) and hated them because of Covenant. Read the second series, and it was much better. The Bloodguard was what we all loved from teh books. The John Carter of Mars books by ERB: I read the first five or six, great fun, and they help me remember to keep my adventures pulpy.
The Elric of Melniboné books by Michael Moorcock: Even more than Elric, Corum Jhalen Ersei from the Swords books was my first true fantasy hero. Great ideas here for multiverse and plots
The Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling: First book was a cute British boarding school book. Couldn't get into the rest.
The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy by JRR Tolkien: The Appendices are so chock full of goodness I could read just them
The Worm Ouroborous by Eric Rücker Eddison: Just marvellous stuff. Well worth acquiring the taste. Then read Mistress of Mistresses, and A Fish Dinneer in Memison.
Books by Roger Zelazny: Nine Princes in Amber blew my young mind. Don't use much Zelazny in my games, but especially liked Creatures of Light and Darkness, Lord of Light and Jack of Shadows
The Belgariad and the other series by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings(uncredited): These are fun pablum. I find the archetypes useful in my campaigns (I even ran a Rolemaster campaign set in the Belgariad)
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Post by tetramorph on Feb 9, 2015 19:16:09 GMT -5
So who was Lord Dunsany? What did he write? What should I read first?
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 9, 2015 20:25:45 GMT -5
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Post by makofan on Feb 10, 2015 9:46:20 GMT -5
Perilous Dreamer summed up Dunsany perfectly. I would also then read William Morris (The Wood Beyond the World and The Well at the World's End). Then track down Silverlock by John Myers Myers. A nice little subgenre there. Very fairy-tale-esque
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Post by Necromancer on Feb 10, 2015 10:41:17 GMT -5
Also, H.P. Lovecraft was inspired by Dunsany, perhaps most notably so in his works that lean more towards fantasy than horror.
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 10, 2015 12:12:27 GMT -5
Also, H.P. Lovecraft was inspired by Dunsany, perhaps most notably so in his works that lean more towards fantasy than horror. I would never have guessed that H.P. Lovecraft was a Lord Dunsany fan, how cool is that.
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 10, 2015 12:19:12 GMT -5
Perilous Dreamer summed up Dunsany perfectly. I would also then read William Morris (The Wood Beyond the World and The Well at the World's End). Then track down Silverlock by John Myers Myers. A nice little subgenre there. Very fairy-tale-esque It has been a long time (35+ years) since I read Silverlock. I don't remember a lot about it now. For William Morris check out The Wood Beyond the World and The Well at the World's End. I really enjoy William Morris! Check out the Table of Contents for the "four" books that make up The Well at the World's End.
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Post by tetramorph on Feb 10, 2015 14:36:34 GMT -5
I have read the Wood Beyond the World. It was a little tough for me I must admit. But I am willing to try again. I am not familiar with the Well at World's End, so I will have to find that!
And thanks for the help with Dunsany. I think I will go there next.
I've been trying to slog through George MacDonald. Lewis and Tolkien loved him, so I want to love him too. But it seems to go on and on and I don't know how to get into it.
Oh well.
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Post by makofan on Feb 10, 2015 14:53:27 GMT -5
Silverlock is a much more contemporary type of writing. The protagonist gets washed up on shore of a mysterious land called the Commonwealth, and proceeds to meet a bunch of mythic figures during his journey, like Beowulf for example. Half of the fun is figuring out who he meets as you don't learn their names. Here is a great summary of it blog.worldswithoutend.com/2012/05/forays-into-fantasy-silverlock-by-john-myers-myers/
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 10, 2015 17:12:19 GMT -5
I have read the Wood Beyond the World. It was a little tough for me I must admit. But I am willing to try again. I am not familiar with the Well at World's End, so I will have to find that! And thanks for the help with Dunsany. I think I will go there next. I've been trying to slog through George MacDonald. Lewis and Tolkien loved him, so I want to love him too. But it seems to go on and on and I don't know how to get into it. Oh well. These older authors/older writing styles fascinate me and I enjoy the way the read and wish that I could write in that style. Part of that is likely that I read a lot of that style writing as a child when I was being read to and learning to read. For George MacDonald here is the Gutenberg link MacDonald, George,. The Princess and the Goblin and The Princess and Curdie (reading order) are about half way down the list.
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Post by tetramorph on Feb 11, 2015 12:17:38 GMT -5
This thread has helped me realize something: I've always preferred nonfiction to fiction, essays to short stories, etc.
I think that is why I LOVE rules, especially in OS rules-lite systems: NO "FLUFF"! Just "non fiction."
I think that is also why I love the Silmarillion (and perhaps why others hate it!): it reads more like a non-fiction library with chronicles, annals, war-reports, geographies, time-lines, genealogies than like a novel. Narratives are interspersed within, in order to build the general "nonfictional" world. I can deal with reading those "short stories" within the general essays because they are written straightforwardly, tersely, they are always moving somewhere, they are epic, written in an epic tone, and contribute to the picture of the world. (I love the OT for the same reason!)
Oh for more of that kind of Fantasy writing! But who would publish it!
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 11, 2015 14:34:36 GMT -5
This thread has helped me realize something: I've always preferred nonfiction to fiction, essays to short stories, etc. I think that is why I LOVE rules, especially in OS rules-lite systems: NO "FLUFF"! Just "non fiction." I think that is also why I love the Silmarillion (and perhaps why others hate it!): it reads more like a non-fiction library with chronicles, annals, war-reports, geographies, time-lines, genealogies than like a novel. Narratives are interspersed within, in order to build the general "nonfictional" world. I can deal with reading those "short stories" within the general essays because they are written straightforwardly, tersely, they are always moving somewhere, they are epic, written in an epic tone, and contribute to the picture of the world. (I love the OT for the same reason!) Oh for more of that kind of Fantasy writing! But who would publish it! During unboxing earlier today from our recent move I ran across my copy of The Silmarillion. I've read bits of it but I think I'm going to give it a serious go...
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Post by makofan on Feb 12, 2015 13:59:01 GMT -5
I really enjoy the Silmarillion, despite the bad press it gets nowadays by Tolkien scholars. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay did a superb job, IMO, editing the First Age down to a manageable size.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 13, 2015 20:28:17 GMT -5
I really enjoy the Silmarillion, despite the bad press it gets nowadays by Tolkien scholars. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay did a superb job, IMO, editing the First Age down to a manageable size. That really increases my interest in the book!
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 9, 2015 19:31:44 GMT -5
I really enjoy the Silmarillion, despite the bad press it gets nowadays by Tolkien scholars. Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay did a superb job, IMO, editing the First Age down to a manageable size. That really increases my interest in the book! I wish I could have read the Silmarillion before I read the Hobbit or the LotR.
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Post by randyb on Mar 10, 2015 6:55:20 GMT -5
Just thought I'd comment on a couple of these. John Carter -- the last book of the series should be burned. It's terrible. The writing style is (a) juvenile, and (b) doesn't seem at all like the rest. The author switched from "I did this" mode to "Carter does this" mode. My understanding is Burroughs son wrote most of that last book and Burroughs himself only contributed some notes. For me it is non-canon IMO. There's a bit of that going around in different genres. In military historical fiction, WEB Griffin wrote great stuff, but when his son started getting cover credits as co-author, entire series (multiple) went downhill.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Oct 15, 2015 12:06:55 GMT -5
Late to this topic, but here goes.
Couldn't get through Dune at all. Horseclans series has it good and dawg installments. The T. Covenant series was a grind to read. (Who didn't hate the anti-hero?) The Hobbit reads better now than when I first read it 20+ years ago; LotR is a harder read now, because I know it too well. Wheel of Time started out well, and then became a bunch of goop. The Lost Sisters-- I reread this about every 2 years.
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Post by hengest on Oct 16, 2015 16:17:27 GMT -5
I'm glad this thread was resurrected.
GRRM, A Song of Ice and Fire -- not my cup of tea, but I'm "glad" I'm aware of what's going on with them. I don't know what GRRM really thinks (seems to be a sharp guy), but he and some of his fans seem to suggest it's some kind of "antidote"to JRRT and LOTR. As some of you already know, I'm a heavy Tolkien fan, but that's not the point -- A Song of Ice and Fire is simply nothing like Tolkien's fiction in even the most basic ways. LOTR is a narrative, ASOIAF is an anti-narrative in which events just keep tumbling over each other and there's really no starting point or end in sight. When there is, it's going to feel painfully artificial (my opinion). I see some of the draw -- the open-ended world in which there are all these semi-defined houses and family personalities, but it's just so far from LOTR in every single way that no comparison could really be fruitful.
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Post by Admin Pete on Oct 17, 2015 0:04:57 GMT -5
I'm glad this thread was resurrected. Please remember that you can resurrect any thread you would like to post comments to, that is freely allowed and encouraged on this board.
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Post by Von on Oct 19, 2015 2:45:19 GMT -5
On the matter of Covenant: the good news is that Linden Avery, the de facto protagonist of the Second Chronicles, is a much nicer person. The bad news is that for some reason she is obsessed with Covenant and becomes more and more tiresome as the books wind on. I read the first volume of the Last Chronicles before getting sick into my own scorn and abandoning Linden to her fate just as Covenant showed up again.
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Post by Necromancer on Oct 20, 2015 8:06:32 GMT -5
Ok, I've thought about posting in this thread for a long time, and finally I took some time to do it. Here we go...
The Horseclans series by Robert Adams: I haven't read these books.
The Dune Series by Brian Herbert: I've heard and read about these books, and I've seen the movie, but never read the originals. However, I like the concept and I plan to pick up at least the first one eventually.
The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan and completed by Brandon Sanderson: I've never read these books, and I doubt I will. My youngest brother is a fan, and I've got friends being into the series as well, but the impression I've received hasn't got me hooked.
Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath by H.P. Lovecraft: An evocative and imaginary tale, I like it, but then again I'm a huge Lovecraft fan. Personally I prefer the "pure" horror stories, but the Dream Cycle is definitely worth a read as well.
Stephen Kings books as a group: I read quite a lot of books by Stephen King when I was a teenager, but that was ages ago... I'm a bit torn. I think he's written some good stuff, and I really like his depiction of childhood adventures as well as American small town life (especially those parts set in the 50's), but I usually have a problem with the way he chooses to end his books...
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever, The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson: I read the first trilogy as a teenager, but I must admit I actually don't remember much of it. Perhaps I'll re-read it again at some point, but I've got loads of books I'd like to read before I get to that.
The John Carter of Mars books by ERB: I love the concept, and I was very entertained by the movie. The first five of them was translated and published here in the 70's - I've got the first one and a friend of mine has promised to sell me his copies of the next four books, so I'm planning to read them once I've got them all. I'm really looking forward to it.
The Star Wars books by Kevin J. Anderson: I haven't read them.
The Elric of Melniboné books by Michael Moorcock: I've read them more than once and I love them, I think they are fantastic.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson: I haven't read this one.
The Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling: I've bought hardbacks of the whole series really cheap on flea markets and second hand bookstores, but haven't read them so far. I've seen most of the movies, and was quite entertained by them.
The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy by JRR Tolkien: Lovely books, I've read them and they have been very inspirational to me. In fact, reading "The Fellowship of the Ring" really was my gateway to roleplaying games.
The A Game of Thrones series by George R. R. Martin: I've seen the first four seasons of the HBO TV series, but I haven't read the books. My impression? Well, a quite interesting and adult oriented take on fantasy - impressive when it comes to complex intrigues but rather thin in terms of fantasy features. Reading them seems like an awfully massive commitment...
All of E.R. Burroughs books: I haven't read them. Sure, I've seen a bunch of Tarzan movies but that's not the same thing. The Pellucidar series seems particularly interesting to me.
The Ringworld books by Larry Niven: I haven't read these.
The Darkover books by Marion Zimmer Bradley: I haven't read these.
Tros of Samothrace by Talbot Mundy: I haven't read this either.
Mahars of Pellucidar by John Eric Holmes: I haven't read it.
The Worm Ouroborous by Eric Rücker Eddison: I haven't read it.
Dragonlance books: A friend gave me half a dozen books years ago but I haven't read them. They're still piled away. Somewhere.
Books by Roger Zelazny: I haven't read them.
Quag Keep by Andre Norton: I haven't read this.
The Ravenloft books: I haven't read these.
Helliconia trilogy by Brian Aldiss: I've been a bit curious about Helliconia for years, but they're quite hard to come by (especially for decent prices) around here, but so far I haven't read them.
The Saga of Pliocene Exile by Julian May: I haven't read this.
The Otherland series by Tad Williams: I haven't read these books either.
The books by Jack Vance: I've just picked up "The Dying Earth", and it looks promising. I've also got a few of the T'schai books that I plan to read later on.
The Belgariad and the other series by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings(uncredited): I read the Belgariad and the Mallorea books when I was younger, and I was quite entertained by them back then. I kept reading the other series, but grew more and more frustrated with the repetition of themes and character types, ending up with putting away "The Redemption of Althalus" after a hundred pages or so.
The Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey: This was a series, wasn't it? I've got one book anyway, but actually haven't read it.
So... there it is. Hmm, seems like there was quite a few titles I haven't read, even some I've never heard of before. Then again, there's just so much interesting books out there!
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