Design Principle: random tables.

[Von]

The point of the random chart or table is not to do all the work for me. That's not what I use them for or design them to do.

The point of the random chart is to provide a catalyst for my imagination when I am either confronted with a tabula rasa (i.e. when actually putting down the corridors and caves and passageways of a dungeon) or caught on the hop (i.e. when the player of a Sorcerer wants to research a ritual and the trappings of that ritual need to be established ASAP to preserve the flow of play).

I design play environments through question and answer. Where is it? What's it like? Who built it? Why? What can we expect to find down there? Who's interested in it? What factions are currently at work within it? Only once a strong concept for the dungeon is established do I turn to my randomising methods to deal with the donkey work of layout and population and even then, my methods will not produce something that is immediately 'finished' - I will still have to make choices and decisions. The point is that I now have a starting point, something to play with or kick against, when making those decisions - instead of 'waiting for the Muse' like some lovestruck poet.

The best random tables are those that provide inspiration rather than solution - in my book, anyway - and those which are constructed after long thought on how their output will be rendered concrete.

Even something like the Bargains table which does produce a fully resolved outcome is used only when a ritual requires 'summon some External and ask it' to research. There is a one in fourteen chance even of triggering the table and there are ten possible results thereon - and those results were put there while I was thinking very hard about the character of the Host External. The table was created thoughtfully and with sources near to hand.

When I find my paper notes for it I will post the External Bargains table as an example of the outcome.

[Necromancer]

Interesting. I'm looking forward to read more about it, since I'm thinking a lot about how to design random tables applied to the exploration of my own setting.

[robkuntz]

May 2, 2015 7:54:26 GMT -5 Von said:

The point of the random chart or table is not to do all the work for me. That's not what I use them for or design them to do.

The point of the random chart is to provide a catalyst for my imagination when I am either confronted with a tabula rasa (i.e. when actually putting down the corridors and caves and passageways of a dungeon) or caught on the hop (i.e. when the player of a Sorcerer wants to research a ritual and the trappings of that ritual need to be established ASAP to preserve the flow of play).

I design play environments through question and answer. Where is it? What's it like? Who built it? Why? What can we expect to find down there? Who's interested in it? What factions are currently at work within it? Only once a strong concept for the dungeon is established do I turn to my randomising methods to deal with the donkey work of layout and population and even then, my methods will not produce something that is immediately 'finished' - I will still have to make choices and decisions. The point is that I now have a starting point, something to play with or kick against, when making those decisions - instead of 'waiting for the Muse' like some lovestruck poet.

The best random tables are those that provide inspiration rather than solution - in my book, anyway - and those which are constructed after long thought on how their output will be rendered concrete.

Even something like the Bargains table which does produce a fully resolved outcome is used only when a ritual requires 'summon some External and ask it' to research. There is a one in fourteen chance even of triggering the table and there are ten possible results thereon - and those results were put there while I was thinking very hard about the character of the Host External. The table was created thoughtfully and with sources near to hand.

When I find my paper notes for it I will post the External Bargains table as an example of the outcome.

+1. Though I don't use tables I do use lists (same thing, essentially) and scan them for subtleties.  I am also inclined to open the dictionary and point at a random word (this for name crafting as well) and then interrogate it in the same manner you suggest, the journalistic 5 W's and How?

[The Archivist]

May 2, 2015 7:54:26 GMT -5 Von said:

The point of the random chart or table is not to do all the work for me. That's not what I use them for or design them to do.

The point of the random chart is to provide a catalyst for my imagination when I am either confronted with a tabula rasa (i.e. when actually putting down the corridors and caves and passageways of a dungeon) or caught on the hop (i.e. when the player of a Sorcerer wants to research a ritual and the trappings of that ritual need to be established ASAP to preserve the flow of play).

I design play environments through question and answer. Where is it? What's it like? Who built it? Why? What can we expect to find down there? Who's interested in it? What factions are currently at work within it? Only once a strong concept for the dungeon is established do I turn to my randomising methods to deal with the donkey work of layout and population and even then, my methods will not produce something that is immediately 'finished' - I will still have to make choices and decisions. The point is that I now have a starting point, something to play with or kick against, when making those decisions - instead of 'waiting for the Muse' like some lovestruck poet.

The best random tables are those that provide inspiration rather than solution - in my book, anyway - and those which are constructed after long thought on how their output will be rendered concrete.

Even something like the Bargains table which does produce a fully resolved outcome is used only when a ritual requires 'summon some External and ask it' to research. There is a one in fourteen chance even of triggering the table and there are ten possible results thereon - and those results were put there while I was thinking very hard about the character of the Host External. The table was created thoughtfully and with sources near to hand.

When I find my paper notes for it I will post the External Bargains table as an example of the outcome.

Great Post! Have an Exalt!

[Von]

Example Random Table #1 - Conditions of the External Bargain (External Bargains can be entered into by players with an urgent desire to play a class for which they haven't rolled the prerequisite statistics naturally; they are a potential consequence of acquiring new rituals if one happens to be of the Sorcerous persuasion; they may well be offered to Assassins who dual-class into or out of that state.)

d10	result
1	mutilation: stick raven's quills (d4) 1 - under fingernails, 2 - into ears, 3 - into tearducts, 4 - into tongue and lose corresponding sense or capacity
2	geas: recover an artifact (flip coin: H = a 'loot' item, T = a trivial everyday thing with one highly specific quality) within the lunar month of making the bargain
3	disease: degenerative physical decay, similar to leprosy, lose 1 HP permanently every time the character takes a critical hit
4	forfeit: the External robs one of the character's memories and a percentage of XP determined by the significance of the bargain
5	mark: the character's CHA modifier is set to -1 to all non-Sorcerers/Assassins/Externals, for whom it's +1
6	curse: the character can no longer harm one type of the Host External's creations (d3) 1 - ghoul, 2 - dwerg, 3 - blight
7	curse: the External will, at some point, reveal your secrets, or your location, to a Sorcerer who summons it. You won't know.
8	sacrifice: murder a Knight Palatine (Paladin) in cold blood and dedicate their death to the Host External before you can receive your part of the Bargain
9	bodily decay: lose 1 HD of value from your highest of STR, DEX and CON
10	possession: the External will claim your body for a year and a day. You won't know when.

This one started with key words: things that Unpleasant Entities From Outside The World We Know typically demand as tribute. I then fleshed them out into things that would either be a plot point or a mechanical pain in the arse. They are not balanced. They are not intended to be balanced. If you insist on asking the Externals for favours you're asking to be be treated unfairly: that's the point. I imagine it will be some time before I run out of Bargains and need to rotate others into the table.

[Von]

Example Random Table #2 - Spell Creation Tables

This set of tables is designed for creating spells on the fly, when caught on the hop by emergent play and not willing to break the flow while I go "urrrrr..."

Again, I started by thinking about key terms. What makes spells distinct from one another, besides their effects? I came up with rarity (how easy it is to find the spell), reagent (what kind of stuff makes it go), execution (what makes it go; what specific action activates the magic involved), timeframe (how long it takes to 'charge' or prepare for casting), and weird stipulations or conditions (factors without with the spell refuses to work at all).

These collapse nicely down into tables, each using one of the Platonic Solids (the d10 is reserved for External affairs), which can be rolled upon to generate a set of conditions by which the player might achieve their desired effect.

d4	Rarity
1	Commonplace - copies everywhere
2	Uncommon - a certain amount of shopping around, but available in most cities
3	Rare - you know where there is a copy but there's only one within easy reach
4	Mythic - if you wanted it you shoulda done a quest for it

d6	Reagent
1	Animal - monster bits, teeth, scales, eyes, bones, fur
2	Vegetable - herb, incense, spice, fungus
3	Mineral - rock, gem, sand, soil, clay
4	Personal - hair, tooth, nail, blood, spit, body part, memory
5	Temporal - geas or obligation, status, child
6	Sensory - a chang, song, silence, temporary loss of a sense, possession

d8	Execution
1	Consume
2	Destroy
3	Bury
4	Submerge/Dissolve
5	Combine (with another reagent of same type)
6	Apply (to desired subject or target)
7	Distil (i.e. purify)
8	Create

d12	Timeframe
1	five minutes
2	one full day
3	dusk till dawn
4	five hours
5	sunrise to noon
6	one minute
7	one hour
8	noon to sunset
9	three hours
10	dawn till dusk
11	seven hours
12	seventy-one hours

d20	Weird Stipulation
1	only works on Sorcerer's native soil
2	Sorcerer must wear a specific colour to cast
3	only works in a given season
4	must be done outdoors
5	requires three reagents
6	has an after-shock lasting d10 (units from timeframe roll)
7	Sorcerer must save or roll on the Infernal Bargains table
8	only works on the target's native soil
9	Sorcerer must pronounce the words flawlessly
10	requires open flame
11	requires a quantity of the Sorcerer's own blood
12	unlucky! Sorcerer rerolls all 20s for the rest of the session
13	must be cast in the rain
14	ritual must be written, carved or tattooed into living flesh and read off that
15	wants a special lamp/cauldron/knife/wand
16	Sorcerer must be naked to cast
17	dependent on an astrological phenomenon of some sort
18	reagent is of a highly specific kind only found in one place
19	spell cannot be cast on land
20	absolutely nothing fussy at all

[Necromancer]

I like this, Von, I like it a lot. In fact, it actually gave me some great ideas about how I could design a magic system for one of my other projects. Whenever I'll find the time to do that...

[robkuntz]

This is somewhat representative of a system I organized and implemented in 1975 for my World of Kalibruhn spells, which will be included in the WoK Supplement upcoming after my move. I add in other layers and factors as well for a granular, in-depth spell system.

[Von]

Generally speaking, robkuntz, I try to eliminate granularity from spell systems; for whatever reason I find developers tend to overdo things there.

[robkuntz]

Well, as you will. However, what you post above is a granular system. But speaking in side-long generalities does not expose the system itself, so mine is perforce a general summary of indices applied within it in specific ways which enrich the play possibilities, and that is always, IMO, conducive with more choices, and more choices create more variations and creative leaps for me. YMMV of course.

[Von]

Perhaps I misunderstand the precise meaning of 'granular' in this context.

For me, the traditional long list of discrete spells, organised by level, assigned to schools, carefully stratified and distinct, and taking up a sizeable fraction of the book, is a surfeit of <something>, whether <something> is 'granularity' or what. You're the veteran of the form; you tell me.

[Admin Pete]

I like the Spell Creation Tables above with the ability to create on the fly for the M-U. Quite cool!

[robkuntz]

Jun 5, 2015 1:42:46 GMT -5 Von said:

Perhaps I misunderstand the precise meaning of 'granular' in this context.

For me, the traditional long list of discrete spells, organised by level, assigned to schools, carefully stratified and distinct, and taking up a sizeable fraction of the book, is a surfeit of <something>, whether <something> is 'granularity' or what. You're the veteran of the form; you tell me.

Yes.  There are some different uses and thus degrees of granularity.  Randomization is granular distribution. The longer the list the more possibilities, and so forth.  Though I was not referring to "carefully stratified and distinct".  Anyway, my compliments for your system.

[Von]

robkuntz - A-ha, I think I'm with you now. Much obliged to you.

@the Perilous Dreamer - Thanks! Coupled with the streamlined psionics system I'm ganking from Carcosa I think I'm edging toward a version of the M-U that works for me.

[Von]

May 7, 2015 19:58:15 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

+1. Though I don't use tables I do use lists (same thing, essentially) and scan them for subtleties.  I am also inclined to open the dictionary and point at a random word (this for name crafting as well) and then interrogate it in the same manner you suggest, the journalistic 5 W's and How?

I never thanked you for this post, which was churlish of me. The interrogation of lists and words and the cross-referencing process are very important in populating tables and redesigning classes for my own efforts. I haven't tried the "random word" approach to naming conventions yet but we'll see if I have cause to do so in future.

[jmccann]

May 2, 2015 7:54:26 GMT -5 Von said:

The point of the random chart or table is not to do all the work for me. That's not what I use them for or design them to do.

The point of the random chart is to provide a catalyst for my imagination when I am either confronted with a tabula rasa (i.e. when actually putting down the corridors and caves and passageways of a dungeon) or caught on the hop (i.e. when the player of a Sorcerer wants to research a ritual and the trappings of that ritual need to be established ASAP to preserve the flow of play).

Yes, it is not just the outcome of the randomization that matters, but figuring out how to incorporate the result into the existing world.