OD&D Play-test is over. System stuff

[ripx187]

I don’t know how well the players or myself are taking to the old-school dungeon-based adventures. We had a blast the first game, but the second just seemed so slow and there wasn’t anything that I could really do about it. I think that when it comes to adult games played by people who are sacrificing things to play the game, the DM kind of owes it to the players to have their ducks in a row. I’m not talking about railroading, but I think that there should be some foundations there to work with. The one person who knows what is going on is myself. I do want to play the game with the players, but I don’t like abandoning the script entirely. There for, some degree of personal design and story elements really need to be in my game. It is what the players expect from me and why they play MY game vs. other DMs.

Now that I’ve experienced OD&D I have gained an appreciation for AD&D and what it is. Was it just to codify a system and remove personal expression? I don’t think so. Not anymore. I think that it makes the game faster and more interesting. Now, I’m not going to jump right into 2e again, but I did notice that during play I abandoned the little pamphlet for monsters and picked up the 1e Monster Manual and discovered that this was the same system, hardly anything had changed.

I moved to OD&D because of the slimmer spell list, and I am definitely going to keep that. Spells as treasure and leaving room for players to invent custom spells is what the game is about to me! I also prefer how the Wizard system progression works over the d4 hp per level. The system balances itself out better without overly handicapping the class. The concept is brilliant and I have no idea why they changed it.

I tried player controlled XP for gold only, and it just doesn’t work at the table. My players get upset when they find something that can’t be divided up among them, they enjoy the team aspects and do not want to compete with each other at all, which is fine. I’m not going to make them do something that isn’t fun for them, so I think that I’ll return to my old XP system.

Combat, for years we used THAC0 and this was the first time we didn’t. I think that we prefer the combat matrix table, however I don’t really care for OD&D’s as the matrix isn’t complete so I think that I’ll just use 1e AD&D.

Creatures, I am going to return to a base of 1d8 per HD when I have to, but typically I don’t roll hp for monsters unless it is just a couple of them. Also, when it comes to monsters, as crazy as this sounds I actually enjoy that crazy over complicated XP system presented in OD&D. It is wonky, but I think that it is more accurate; if that makes sense? It will require a bit more from me, but I just love that system so much . . . at least on paper.

I think that I have a better understanding of just how worthwhile AD&D is, and there are a few tables and systems in 2e that I just love too much to not use, but they don’t really change anything, I just like to use them because they are fun.

Prior to actually play-testing OD&D I started working with open systems, and I’ve always picked and chose what rules to apply to the game from AD&D at any specific moment that works at that time. I don’t always consult the official rules so over all I don’t think that the players will notice too much that we’ve changed systems. The major point that I want to keep is that the players aren’t turning to their character sheets for answers, and that they are fully interacting with the setting.

[mao]

I  find myself missing my game more after reading above, if only I had a magic wand and could wave for the best version "SIGH"

[ripx187]

Sept 17, 2018 18:32:44 GMT -5 mao said:

I  find myself missing my game more after reading above, if only I had a magic wand and could wave for the best version "SIGH"

It might not be too late Mao. We had quit playing for years, but I caught the bug again when I went to sell me books and . . . well, ended up using them instead. Our first game was just myself, my wife, and a buddy of mine. Word of mouth spread from there and I quickly got a real club going again. Just sell it, man. Design games that you want to play, and get some butts at the table. Even one-on-one will work. If the game is good, then you'll get two and then three and before you know it you'll have to have a waiting list

I've rebooted our game a couple of different times since, and players always end up coming back. 

[Crimhthan The Great]

What made your second game slow?

I am really curious what you are doing, when you say AD&D plays faster than OD&D?  You said that AD&D is faster and more interesting than OD&D? Please explain, as I have played AD&D and I am at a loss to understand how that is even possible.

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Sept 18, 2018 9:53:48 GMT -5 Crimhthan The Great said:

What made your second game slow?

I am really curious what you are doing, when you say AD&D plays faster than OD&D?  You said that AD&D is faster and more interesting than OD&D? Please explain, as I have played AD&D and I am at a loss to understand how that is even possible.

I think in part it is he has decades experience with AD&D so it is what he is used to. Though I am at a loss how the second session got slower? Was it combat or the exploration? I am new to OD&D/Delving Deeper, but I was mainly a player for most of my gaming career so I don't have years of running a specific rulesset. I found I prefer VERY rules-lite rpgs, and OD&D/DD hit the spot for me. I just can't see myself running a game that is not OD&D/DD or B/X D&D based. 

[ripx187]

Sept 18, 2018 9:53:48 GMT -5 Crimhthan The Great said:

What made your second game slow?

I am really curious what you are doing, when you say AD&D plays faster than OD&D?  You said that AD&D is faster and more interesting than OD&D? Please explain, as I have played AD&D and I am at a loss to understand how that is even possible.

I mean no offence, Morgan. When I say AD&D I am talking about MY system; the one that I've worked with and tweaked for 20 years. There is a game that is in books, and there is the one that I have in my head; the one in my head is faster and easier to use. I don't like how OD&D is organized in the books. They are smaller, but the information that I want is all over the place. I will take more than just what was mentioned above, I have worked with the OD&D esthetic of "Try Anything". 

Mechanics have never really been a big deal for me, especially behind the screen. Mechanics are not set, they change as the play dictates; my goal is to call the game in a way that the players have no idea when I deviate from "official" rules in favor of specific systems which are only used in that moment. I ended up trimming a lot of fat off of AD&D, and it resulted with something that is much like OD&D but I don't have to look anything up. 

AD&D, especially the 1st Edition, is the same as OD&D. The OD&D system is still present in 2nd Edition as well; to find it all you have to do is play the basic game without the bells and whistles that had been added to the foundation. Most of the changes were all cosmetic and could be ignored. This does not mean that I believe that OD&D was a BETA test only, I don't. It is a fast pass to knowing just how little that the DM can work with, what is necessary, what isn't. 

If I use a base of AD&D to play OD&D, is it still Dungeons & Dragons?

If a player says that he wants to hit something with his sword, he still has to roll the dice. d6 based hp is one way to do it, but I like using my funny dice, and so do my players. I mean, they won't buy books (which doesn't matter to me since I break the rules all the time), but they do buy dice and they bring them to the table and line them up like soldiers, I say let's use them! Logic and playability trump everything. You've got the jump on that orc with your dagger, now pick up that d12 and roll for damage! Who cares what Gary says, but I'd like to think that if he was sitting at my table he'd smile when I told him that too.

[ripx187]

Sept 18, 2018 13:04:55 GMT -5 Hexenritter Verlag said:

Sept 18, 2018 9:53:48 GMT -5 Crimhthan The Great said:

What made your second game slow?

I am really curious what you are doing, when you say AD&D plays faster than OD&D?  You said that AD&D is faster and more interesting than OD&D? Please explain, as I have played AD&D and I am at a loss to understand how that is even possible.

I think in part it is he has decades experience with AD&D so it is what he is used to. Though I am at a loss how the second session got slower? Was it combat or the exploration? I am new to OD&D/Delving Deeper, but I was mainly a player for most of my gaming career so I don't have years of running a specific rulesset. I found I prefer VERY rules-lite rpgs, and OD&D/DD hit the spot for me. I just can't see myself running a game that is not OD&D/DD or B/X D&D based. 

It was looking up procedural changes. Granted, I did get frustrated by the player mapping process, but that is something that we need to work on. For a small group, it was fine, but that second session I had a full table including 2 noobs who wanted to play. I could make lots of excuses for why I feel the game failed, but at the end of the day, I can only fix myself. I didn't have enough material prepared to answer the questions of 10 people and keep everybody engaged in the game, so I lost control Most of what we ended up doing was the same thing that we did last game, but with more people. We are still on the 1st level of the dungeon, and I honestly don't like putting that many people into cramped spaces, I have no idea how that is even done! The dungeon exploration is also a game that is beyond my control as to how long it goes. They managed to grab their max weight in treasure, then it is time to go. Usually, in the past, there were more motivations to play than just getting money.

I think that at the heart of the issue is that, as a group, we are more interested in the story-telling aspects of RPG than anything else, and while dungeon delving factored into that process it was never the point of the game. I also don't think very fast, not fast enough to play by the seat of my pants anyway.  

[ripx187]

Another aspect which I'm going to keep is the slim PC sheets, and fast character generation. No more 2 hour PC designs prior to play, just roll up some stats, pick a name and a class and lets go! If you die, so what, hurry up and roll a new one up and try again.