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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 13:25:27 GMT -5
I don't recall where I found this online, but Frank "BECMI" Mentzer posted it. It was an idea he had BitD as he was revising Moldvay's B/X into what is now known as BECMI. It is the thief as an add-on to the "Big 3" of the Fighting-Man, Magic-User, Cleric triad. I thought some of you might get some use of it. Also? Be aware Mentzer has a full reworking of the BECMI thief available as a download PDF. It's a full class and a nice idea to either use whole cloth or base to riff your own ideas. Contact me via IM if you would like a copy. I'm not sure where he has it available any more, but it is copyrighted so I don't want to quote it here.
Most classes may choose to add new Abilities known only to Thieves, as follows: - Any character not of Lawful alignment may add Thief.
- Once Thief is added, all XP is divided equally between the original class and Thief (see table of advancement).
- A character with Thief ability may at any time choose to permanently forego Thief progress. XP is no longer divided thereafter, but no further progress as Thief can ever occur normally (though some magical progress may be possible, such as by reading certain Tomes or using certain Artifacts). All abilities remain usable at the percentage chance of success previously obtained.
- Thief skills (abilities) are gained as given on the chart (Greyhawk pg 11): Open Locks, Remove Traps, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise.
Notes: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are possible only if not wearing metal armor of any sort. Failure at the Remove Traps roll generally does not activate the trap. In this case a character may immediately try again to Remove the Trap, and this second attempt will almost certainly activate the trap if unsuccessful. All Thieves belong to a special Guild of such, and acquire their training thereby, in standard fashion. n.b.: Outside this Guild, no Thief is ever forced to reveal his Thief status, though over time such may become obvious to his or her fellow party members. Cooperation: When more than one character with Thief ability attempts to Open Locks, Remove Traps, or Pickpocket (these three only), ADD the individual percentage chances of success to determine the joint chance, which action takes the same time as an individivudal attempt. If multiple characters are engaged in Trap Removal when the trap activates, and if the trap is target-specific (rather than an area effect), randomly determine which of the participating Thieves is targeted. Example: A character of Footpad (L2) status has a 15% chance to remove a trap, an action which normally takes 1 turn (10 minutes). If four Footpads cooperate, the cumulative chance is 60%, again taking 1 turn to execute. Locks & Traps (modifiers): Note than an advanced Master Thief may have a listed 100% chance of success in these endeavors. This is by no means absolute. Certain locks may be rusty or specially made; traps may be unusually well-crafted or otherwise more difficult. Given such a rationale, the DM may apply a penalty (in 5% increments, i.e. -10%, -25%, etc.) to the attempt at handling such a lock or trap. However, this should in fairness be made known to the player in some general way (e.g. "The trap seems to be unusually small and well-protected..."). However, such devices should be infrequently encountered by parties and Thieves of lower levels.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 14, 2018 13:55:19 GMT -5
I don't recall where I found this online, but Frank "BECMI" Mentzer posted it. It was an idea he had BitD as he was revising Moldvay's B/X into what is now known as BECMI. It is the thief as an add-on to the "Big 3" of the Fighting-Man, Magic-User, Cleric triad. I thought some of you might get some use of it. Also? Be aware Mentzer has a full reworking of the BECMI thief available as a download PDF. It's a full class and a nice idea to either use whole cloth or base to riff your own ideas. Contact me via IM if you would like a copy. I'm not sure where he has it available any more, but it is copyrighted so I don't want to quote it here.
Most classes may choose to add new Abilities known only to Thieves, as follows: - Any character not of Lawful alignment may add Thief.
- Once Thief is added, all XP is divided equally between the original class and Thief (see table of advancement).
- A character with Thief ability may at any time choose to permanently forego Thief progress. XP is no longer divided thereafter, but no further progress as Thief can ever occur normally (though some magical progress may be possible, such as by reading certain Tomes or using certain Artifacts). All abilities remain usable at the percentage chance of success previously obtained.
- Thief skills (abilities) are gained as given on the chart (Greyhawk pg 11): Open Locks, Remove Traps, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise.
Notes: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are possible only if not wearing metal armor of any sort. Failure at the Remove Traps roll generally does not activate the trap. In this case a character may immediately try again to Remove the Trap, and this second attempt will almost certainly activate the trap if unsuccessful. All Thieves belong to a special Guild of such, and acquire their training thereby, in standard fashion. n.b.: Outside this Guild, no Thief is ever forced to reveal his Thief status, though over time such may become obvious to his or her fellow party members. Cooperation: When more than one character with Thief ability attempts to Open Locks, Remove Traps, or Pickpocket (these three only), ADD the individual percentage chances of success to determine the joint chance, which action takes the same time as an individivudal attempt. If multiple characters are engaged in Trap Removal when the trap activates, and if the trap is target-specific (rather than an area effect), randomly determine which of the participating Thieves is targeted. Example: A character of Footpad (L2) status has a 15% chance to remove a trap, an action which normally takes 1 turn (10 minutes). If four Footpads cooperate, the cumulative chance is 60%, again taking 1 turn to execute. Locks & Traps (modifiers): Note than an advanced Master Thief may have a listed 100% chance of success in these endeavors. This is by no means absolute. Certain locks may be rusty or specially made; traps may be unusually well-crafted or otherwise more difficult. Given such a rationale, the DM may apply a penalty (in 5% increments, i.e. -10%, -25%, etc.) to the attempt at handling such a lock or trap. However, this should in fairness be made known to the player in some general way (e.g. "The trap seems to be unusually small and well-protected..."). However, such devices should be infrequently encountered by parties and Thieves of lower levels. Is this something new Frank did or is it older? I found a PDF Frank attached on The Piazza forums thread for such a class called the Jack but it uses d20 for skill tests not the traditional % Thief Skill test.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 14:17:27 GMT -5
This is from before he wrote the Jack thief. I seem to remember he posted this about 4 or 5 years ago, based on a thought he had back in the 1980s.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 14, 2018 14:34:40 GMT -5
Here a link to the Piazza thread with an attachment with the Jack Class that @gizka referred to in his post above and you can download it from there. Since Frank Mentzer (ExTSR) freely shared it in a public forum we can share the link here, just for those who need such notices.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 14, 2018 21:12:50 GMT -5
I also did a Google search but I have not located the link of which @gizka refers to. But so many sites die, it could have been almost any where.
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Post by The Archivist on Aug 14, 2018 21:48:02 GMT -5
I don't recall where I found this online, but Frank "BECMI" Mentzer posted it. It was an idea he had BitD as he was revising Moldvay's B/X into what is now known as BECMI. It is the thief as an add-on to the "Big 3" of the Fighting-Man, Magic-User, Cleric triad. I thought some of you might get some use of it. Also? Be aware Mentzer has a full reworking of the BECMI thief available as a download PDF. It's a full class and a nice idea to either use whole cloth or base to riff your own ideas. Contact me via IM if you would like a copy. I'm not sure where he has it available any more, but it is copyrighted so I don't want to quote it here.
Most classes may choose to add new Abilities known only to Thieves, as follows: - Any character not of Lawful alignment may add Thief.
- Once Thief is added, all XP is divided equally between the original class and Thief (see table of advancement).
- A character with Thief ability may at any time choose to permanently forego Thief progress. XP is no longer divided thereafter, but no further progress as Thief can ever occur normally (though some magical progress may be possible, such as by reading certain Tomes or using certain Artifacts). All abilities remain usable at the percentage chance of success previously obtained.
- Thief skills (abilities) are gained as given on the chart (Greyhawk pg 11): Open Locks, Remove Traps, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise.
Notes: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are possible only if not wearing metal armor of any sort. Failure at the Remove Traps roll generally does not activate the trap. In this case a character may immediately try again to Remove the Trap, and this second attempt will almost certainly activate the trap if unsuccessful. All Thieves belong to a special Guild of such, and acquire their training thereby, in standard fashion. n.b.: Outside this Guild, no Thief is ever forced to reveal his Thief status, though over time such may become obvious to his or her fellow party members. Cooperation: When more than one character with Thief ability attempts to Open Locks, Remove Traps, or Pickpocket (these three only), ADD the individual percentage chances of success to determine the joint chance, which action takes the same time as an individivudal attempt. If multiple characters are engaged in Trap Removal when the trap activates, and if the trap is target-specific (rather than an area effect), randomly determine which of the participating Thieves is targeted. Example: A character of Footpad (L2) status has a 15% chance to remove a trap, an action which normally takes 1 turn (10 minutes). If four Footpads cooperate, the cumulative chance is 60%, again taking 1 turn to execute. Locks & Traps (modifiers): Note than an advanced Master Thief may have a listed 100% chance of success in these endeavors. This is by no means absolute. Certain locks may be rusty or specially made; traps may be unusually well-crafted or otherwise more difficult. Given such a rationale, the DM may apply a penalty (in 5% increments, i.e. -10%, -25%, etc.) to the attempt at handling such a lock or trap. However, this should in fairness be made known to the player in some general way (e.g. "The trap seems to be unusually small and well-protected..."). However, such devices should be infrequently encountered by parties and Thieves of lower levels. I am assuming that you Googled the title of the pdf?
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Post by The Archivist on Aug 14, 2018 21:50:48 GMT -5
I think we should allow players regardless of character race to multi-class, but in a custom designed way with the Ref so that you create something really interesting, not something that can do everything that all classes can do with no limitations or restrictions. That way if a player wants to emulate a favorite fictional character they can. They just have to remember that fictional character was low level once up a time.
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Post by The Archivist on Aug 14, 2018 21:52:56 GMT -5
Here a link to the Piazza thread with an attachment with the Jack Class that @gizka referred to in his post above and you can download it from there. Since Frank Mentzer (ExTSR) freely shared it in a public forum we can share the link here, just for those who need such notices. Interesting that Menzter called this a Jack Class. Someone else beat him to the name The Trickster (Jack) Character Vintage 2005
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 21:58:54 GMT -5
EBH posted a link upthread, but here it is again for anyone who missed it:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 21:59:47 GMT -5
Just remember the add-on Thief class and the BECMI "Jack" class are two separate entities.
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Post by The Archivist on Aug 14, 2018 22:48:56 GMT -5
Just remember the add-on Thief class and the BECMI "Jack" class are two separate entities. Here is a Frank link from 2013 is this anything like what you have? ... and Thief
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 23:26:36 GMT -5
Just remember the add-on Thief class and the BECMI "Jack" class are two separate entities. Here is a Frank link from 2013 is this anything like what you have? ... and ThiefYes, that’s it. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 11:00:38 GMT -5
I asked Frank last week if they December 2016 version of his Jack class is the latest. His reply: (sic) “yah, needs more work tho”.
I hope this is a sign he intends to revisit the concept at some point.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 20, 2018 15:16:07 GMT -5
I asked Frank last week if they December 2016 version of his Jack class is the latest. His reply: (sic) “yah, needs more work tho”. I hope this is a sign he intends to revisit the concept at some point. What is Frank up to now?
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 20, 2018 17:44:29 GMT -5
I think is still working on his World of Emphyria I think though he cancelled his kickstarter for it. Maybe @gizka can fill us in if he has followed Frank's posts on the Piazza. I do know Frank had some issues with Piazza late last year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 19:26:45 GMT -5
To be frank, he's been rather quiet since the accusations of sexual harassment and his apparent online meltdown of last year. To be fair? He is on record as stating the former were without merit and the latter was a concerted effort to discredit him by an unknown person or persons. I like Frank. I hope he gets things sorted in his personal life and gets back to his creative endeavors.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 20, 2018 19:38:47 GMT -5
To be frank, he's been rather quiet since the accusations of sexual harassment and his apparent online meltdown of last year. To be fair? He is on record as stating the former were without merit and the latter was a concerted effort to discredit him by an unknown person or persons. I like Frank. I hope he gets things sorted in his personal life and gets back to his creative endeavors. Boo hiss, bad pun, bad pun. I really don't know much about him at all, but yet that last sentence for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 19:46:08 GMT -5
Frank is a genuinely nice guy who always seems to have time for gamers. He loves to talk about his creative work.
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