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Post by Mighty Darci on Jul 25, 2018 7:59:17 GMT -5
Full Metal Plate Mail is one of the oddest OD&D retroclone of all, for the simple reason that the author, the poster known as leonaru , routinely claims on message boards that there is no difference between old school and new school as styles of play. I am looking forward to see if the claims the author makes about this clone are true given that he professes such great disdain and lack of understanding about old school gaming. Even odder is that this author has two other OD&D clones called Grey Matter and Grey Six.
The claim
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 25, 2018 10:09:34 GMT -5
I actually like FMPM, though there is a bit of missing text in the Torch description in the equipment section it seems to be well written. I actually considered using it for my PbP until I settled on Delving Deeper instead.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Jul 27, 2018 18:48:39 GMT -5
I've haven't read it yet but I plan too.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 10, 2022 20:40:41 GMT -5
I went ahead and took the plunge since the lulu softcover is only $2.72, I figured I couldn't go wrong.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 11, 2022 17:43:49 GMT -5
I went ahead and took the plunge since the lulu softcover is only $2.72, I figured I couldn't go wrong. Interesting tidbit is that the author of this believes that there is no difference in all versions of D&D, from OD&D all the way to 5E. He believes there is no difference in the way they are played nor in the type of play they cater to. Given his beliefs, I would be curious as to how good of a job you think he does of preserving the openness of OD&D, given that he does not believe there is any difference in all of the versions.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 11, 2022 17:50:27 GMT -5
I went ahead and took the plunge since the lulu softcover is only $2.72, I figured I couldn't go wrong. Interesting tidbit is that the author of this believes that there is no difference in all versions of D&D, from OD&D all the way to 5E. He believes there is no difference in the way they are played nor in the type of play they cater to. Given his beliefs, I would be curious as to how good of a job you think he does of preserving the openness of OD&D, given that he does not believe there is any difference in all of the versions. The Perilous Dreamer Oh wow! I went in blind on this purchase since the price was so low. This should definitely be an interesting evaluation when it gets here. I will MOST DEFINITELY post my thoughts on that matter when I get it and give it a good once over.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 11, 2022 18:28:38 GMT -5
Interesting tidbit is that the author of this believes that there is no difference in all versions of D&D, from OD&D all the way to 5E. He believes there is no difference in the way they are played nor in the type of play they cater to. Given his beliefs, I would be curious as to how good of a job you think he does of preserving the openness of OD&D, given that he does not believe there is any difference in all of the versions. The Perilous Dreamer Oh wow! I went in blind on this purchase since the price was so low. This should definitely be an interesting evaluation when it gets here. I will MOST DEFINITELY post my thoughts on that matter when I get it and give it a good once over. I look forward to reading that. I remember when he published it, he caught a lot of flak from people claiming that he did not change enough for it to be a legit clone, but you know how some people are about that. I have never read it that closely.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 11, 2022 20:15:44 GMT -5
The Perilous Dreamer Oh wow! I went in blind on this purchase since the price was so low. This should definitely be an interesting evaluation when it gets here. I will MOST DEFINITELY post my thoughts on that matter when I get it and give it a good once over. I look forward to reading that. I remember when he published it, he caught a lot of flak from people claiming that he did not change enough for it to be a legit clone, but you know how some people are about that. I have never read it that closely. Unfortunately, I cannot really compare it to OD&D because I don't have a copy, but I definitely will see how it looks compared to Delving Deeper. That should be interesting in itself. Yeah, some people put way too much stock in "the legitimacy of the clones". Honesty, the OGL may be a safeguard if you follow it BUT it is also a straitjacket. As it's been pointed out before, it's the presentation of the rules that are protected. So, make a true clone by using Armor Rating instead of Armor Class, Warrior instead of Fighter, Mage instead of Magic-User, and on down the line.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 11, 2022 23:01:03 GMT -5
I look forward to reading that. I remember when he published it, he caught a lot of flak from people claiming that he did not change enough for it to be a legit clone, but you know how some people are about that. I have never read it that closely. Unfortunately, I cannot really compare it to OD&D because I don't have a copy, but I definitely will see how it looks compared to Delving Deeper. That should be interesting in itself. Yeah, some people put way too much stock in "the legitimacy of the clones". Honesty, the OGL may be a safeguard if you follow it BUT it is also a straitjacket. As it's been pointed out before, it's the presentation of the rules that are protected. So, make a true clone by using Armor Rating instead of Armor Class, Warrior instead of Fighter, Mage instead of Magic-User, and on down the line. One opinion would be to just write the game you want, title it by Anonymous and distribute it.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 12, 2022 5:51:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I cannot really compare it to OD&D because I don't have a copy, but I definitely will see how it looks compared to Delving Deeper. That should be interesting in itself. Yeah, some people put way too much stock in "the legitimacy of the clones". Honesty, the OGL may be a safeguard if you follow it BUT it is also a straitjacket. As it's been pointed out before, it's the presentation of the rules that are protected. So, make a true clone by using Armor Rating instead of Armor Class, Warrior instead of Fighter, Mage instead of Magic-User, and on down the line. One opinion would be to just write the game you want, title it by Anonymous and distribute it. YES!
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 22, 2022 18:09:44 GMT -5
My copy arrived today. Thoughts "soon"...
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Mar 20, 2022 10:26:24 GMT -5
Several quick thoughts but far from my complete thoughts...
The artwork is done in a black and white older style. I think it fits well and invokes the appropriate atmosphere for the game.
The layout and organization are well done. Headers and sections are easy to differentiate from the text. My only quibble is that some of the text seems "almost too small" for a book of regular size. Full disclosure, I require reading glasses anyway so it might just be my irritation at my diminishing eyesight.
Spells and Monsters are listed alphabetically, then by level on a separate list, and the descriptions are done alphabetically. This layout makes it simple to find a particular entry or something "of the appropriate level" if you need to.
The Index of Tables and Master Index at the back appears to be complete and exhaustive.
This is just some preliminary thoughts. Next, I will delve into the rules and compare what I read to other retroclones...
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Mar 20, 2022 13:52:47 GMT -5
On to some observations in the character creation section of the rules...
FMPM lists the abilities in the following order - S, I, W, C, D, and Ch while DD lists them as S, I, W, D, C, and Ch. I don't own OD&D so which order is closer to the actual OD&D listing?
Races in FMPM are Bobbit, Dwarf, Elf, and Human while DD offers Halfling, Dwarfs, Elves, and Humans. I've seen Bobbits in older computer games such as the Ultima series. Obviously, it fills the same purpose as "halfling" being a substitute for "hobbit" since the early printings of OD&D listed Hobbit.
Classes available in FMPM are Cleric, Figher, and Mage while DD offers Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User and the optional Thief. The Hit Dice progression differs between the games. In FMPM, the Cleric tops out with 9d6+5 at 13th level while the DD Cleric has 8 at 12th level. In FMPM, the Fighter reaches max HD of 12d6+3 at 13th level while the DD Fighter gets 11 at 12th level. Finally, the FMPM Mage gets a max of 9d6+4 at 13th level while the DD Magic-User gets a max of 7+2 at 12th level. There are also some slight differences between the spells available, experience points required, and other areas when comparing the two similar classes from each product. I did not see a section about changing classes in FMPM; at least not in the character creation area of the rules. I will update later if I notice it.
Just a few observations that I thought might be of interest to some people around here. If there's something in that section you would like me to expand on just put it in the thread and I will do so. Don't be afraid to ask questions, either. If any of you guys have commentary in regards to how this compares to OD&D then feel free to comment away.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 21, 2022 0:09:57 GMT -5
On to some observations in the character creation section of the rules... FMPM lists the abilities in the following order - S, I, W, C, D, and Ch while DD lists them as S, I, W, D, C, and Ch. I don't own OD&D so which order is closer to the actual OD&D listing?Races in FMPM are Bobbit, Dwarf, Elf, and Human while DD offers Halfling, Dwarfs, Elves, and Humans. I've seen Bobbits in older computer games such as the Ultima series. Obviously, it fills the same purpose as "halfling" being a substitute for "hobbit" since the early printings of OD&D listed Hobbit. Classes available in FMPM are Cleric, Figher, and Mage while DD offers Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User and the optional Thief. The Hit Dice progression differs between the games. In FMPM, the Cleric tops out with 9d6+5 at 13th level while the DD Cleric has 8 at 12th level. In FMPM, the Fighter reaches max HD of 12d6+3 at 13th level while the DD Fighter gets 11 at 12th level. Finally, the FMPM Mage gets a max of 9d6+4 at 13th level while the DD Magic-User gets a max of 7+2 at 12th level. There are also some slight differences between the spells available, experience points required, and other areas when comparing the two similar classes from each product. I did not see a section about changing classes in FMPM; at least not in the character creation area of the rules. I will update later if I notice it. Just a few observations that I thought might be of interest to some people around here. If there's something in that section you would like me to expand on just put it in the thread and I will do so. Don't be afraid to ask questions, either. If any of you guys have commentary in regards to how this compares to OD&D then feel free to comment away.The original order of abilities is STR, INT, WIS, CON, DEX, and CHA, so he kept that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2022 9:24:12 GMT -5
If I remember right, one of the treasure tables is missing -gems & jewellery ?
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Sept 17, 2022 10:08:51 GMT -5
If I remember right, one of the treasure tables is missing -gems & jewellery ? We will have to look, I have never read it in detail. I just checked my copy and while gems and jewels are included in some of the tables, a distinct table to determine the values of individual gems and jewels is missing from the rules. Good catch geordieracer !
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