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Post by ripx187 on Jul 17, 2018 15:01:29 GMT -5
I've ran lots of different play-styles, but one that I haven't figured out how to do is encouraging a Planning Stage. You know, when the players are presented with a difficult task and they should think about what they are going to do prior to actually doing it. I've tried! I got as far as asking them what they think that they should bring with them, but I don't think that my players get it and I don't want to tell them how to play the game. I can get them to stock up on supplies, but I kind of want to get more involved than that.
Example, it is a modern concept but can be translated to fantasy, but something along the lines of the film "Ocean's Eleven" where they plan an elaborate casino robbery. I think that something like this would be really fun! However, my players always just rush right in. Of course this is a really big example! Far to complex for a tutorial. I know that a few DM's out there have managed to introduce this play-style successfully. How did you do it?
What kind of information should I supply? What kind of information should I make them work for? I assume that I should be more direct with them, but I'd like to hear some stories about how you did this, or would go about doing this, to get some ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 16:02:51 GMT -5
It happened all the time when I ran Traveller, at least it did with my last group. They would make pretty good plans for the first part of the game that usually involved the whole team and then it was up to me, as the ol'Ref to throw monkeys into their wrench. One example was they were going to break into a museum to steal an antique laser pistol. One player went as far as to go through an interview process to get hired at the museum so the group had an inside man they could trust. Great fun!
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 17, 2018 16:14:23 GMT -5
Exalt JMiskimen that is exactly what I'm talking about! I wonder if there isn't a book that somebody wrote on the subject? I can run complex murder mysteries but this style eludes me. Actually, I think that my last murder mystery was lost because the players didn't plan ahead. The murderess got away because they didn't slow down and try to entrap her. About this example, did you give them maps or lists of NPCs for them to study as part of the planning stage, or was this just a verbal thing that you made up as you went? |
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Post by bravewolf on Jul 17, 2018 16:16:53 GMT -5
ripx187, has your players rushing in ever had seriously deleterious consequences? That can be an impetus for planning ahead! The way I handle planning stages: I give the players about as much information as I think their PCs have in their heads. If they start barking random intentions or what seem to be uncoordinated actions but seem to have a plan in mind, I ask if that is their plan, in the order expressed. Usually, that stops them in their tracks if they actually mean to coordinate their actions. From there, I ask if they want to restate their actions or need to talk among themselves. If they start doing the latter, I say something like, "Right, I'm going to have a piss/get a soda/look around the shop. You guys get your plans sorted and lay it out for me when I get back." They feel less pressure to state immediate or out-of-sequence actions if I'm not there for a bit, I get a break, & there is a good chance that some element of their plan can surprise me. Quick Q&A before they lay out the plan (usually), then it's go time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 16:23:08 GMT -5
Write a murder mystery backwards. I usually use what I call the bubble system. Write down the solution to the mystery in a bubble on the center of a piece of paper. Connect the bubble to plot elements and surprises in other bubbles on the page. expand backwards through your story until you find a good hook for your players. Ta-da. Mystery game completely mapped out.
I gave the Traveller Players a detailed map of the museum and played the NPCs that worked at the museum appropriately. Their Patron wanted the Antique Laser Pistol and was willing to pay handsomely.That's all I gave them. They watched the musem for a week to see the coming and goings of various NPCs and made up a plan from there ... It was pretty cool until this fool Vargr nearly botched the whole thing ...
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 17, 2018 17:52:35 GMT -5
ripx187 , has your players rushing in ever had seriously deleterious consequences? That can be an impetus for planning ahead! The way I handle planning stages: I give the players about as much information as I think their PCs have in their heads. If they start barking random intentions or what seem to be uncoordinated actions but seem to have a plan in mind, I ask if that is their plan, in the order expressed. Usually, that stops them in their tracks if they actually mean to coordinate their actions. From there, I ask if they want to restate their actions or need to talk among themselves. If they start doing the latter, I say something like, "Right, I'm going to have a piss/get a soda/look around the shop. You guys get your plans sorted and lay it out for me when I get back." They feel less pressure to state immediate or out-of-sequence actions if I'm not there for a bit, I get a break, & there is a good chance that some element of their plan can surprise me. Quick Q&A before they lay out the plan (usually), then it's go time. My players are risk takers who enjoy playing by the seat of their pants. They do plan, but their plans are along the lines of "Find the biggest, meanest, nastiest NPC in there and punch him right in the face, then we'll go from there." If I were to describe the playstyle of our group, it would be the character of Indiana Jones, who to us is definitely part of our Appendix N. One of their quotes from a rather heroic game where they decided to release a demon-possessed mental patient, guessing that it would take care of their little vampire problem for them is, "I didn't say that it was a smart plan, I said that it was 'A' plan." (they were mental patients themselves and the Doctors and staff were vampires who were sucking their brain juices). I don't know if I'll ever get them to slow down, nor if I really want to; plans like the one above are entertaining and they know that if they can get me to laugh then their odds of it working are better. Designing a scenario from the outside looking in, that is a new concept for me. Typically they are in the situation and must find a way out. |
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Post by bravewolf on Jul 17, 2018 18:26:36 GMT -5
Write a murder mystery backwards. I usually use what I call the bubble system. Write down the solution to the mystery in a bubble on the center of a piece of paper. Connect the bubble to plot elements and surprises in other bubbles on the page. expand backwards through your story until you find a good hook for your players. Ta-da. Mystery game completely mapped out. I gave the Traveller Players a detailed map of the museum and played the NPCs that worked at the museum appropriately. Their Patron wanted the Antique Laser Pistol and was willing to pay handsomely.That's all I gave them. They watched the musem for a week to see the coming and goings of various NPCs and made up a plan from there ... It was pretty cool until this fool Vargr nearly botched the whole thing ... Elegant! |
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 17, 2018 18:29:17 GMT -5
Write a murder mystery backwards. I usually use what I call the bubble system. Write down the solution to the mystery in a bubble on the center of a piece of paper. Connect the bubble to plot elements and surprises in other bubbles on the page. expand backwards through your story until you find a good hook for your players. Ta-da. Mystery game completely mapped out. I gave the Traveller Players a detailed map of the museum and played the NPCs that worked at the museum appropriately. Their Patron wanted the Antique Laser Pistol and was willing to pay handsomely.That's all I gave them. They watched the musem for a week to see the coming and goings of various NPCs and made up a plan from there ... It was pretty cool until this fool Vargr nearly botched the whole thing ... That right there is some gold! In regards to mysteries, I actually use rumor lists which I roll against, but specific characters who know specific things I write down in notes. I also prep clues and what they mean prior to the game, but everything else I keep in my head. I'm not above changing the ending, if the players think that they have the evidence which points to a different person than who I had planned, I go with what the players deduced. |
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Post by True Black Raven on Jul 23, 2018 22:47:01 GMT -5
Some player groups just don't plan or think things through, I have never understood that. They never seem to make the connection between planning, thinking and surviving. Other groups find it as natural as breathing.
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Post by hengest on Nov 3, 2019 20:20:58 GMT -5
Nice thread. I like the suggestions on here.
I suppose you can hope for the best and simply encourage them to take generally useful supplies. Rope, pole, torches, whatever. he classics. And dedicate yourself to being open to the ways they try to use what they do have. And / or you could give or suggest a couple other things that may be very useful, without making them the magical key to puzzle X.
I particularly like the idea from jmiskimen about the bubble system or I guess a kind of concept map.
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