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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 20:50:38 GMT -5
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:14:02 GMT -5
To put this all in some context see this thread. @chirinebakal was asking to have his account closed and he stated First he is not old, in todays world he is barely middle aged. People more than ever need to know about something called "Blackmoor" with Dave Arneson. something called "Greyhawk" with Gary Gygax, and something called "Tekumel" with Prof. Barker. If his play style and gaming is no longer relevant or resonates with modern gamers, that is to their shame. History and roots are always relevant and should always resonate with people. A number of comments were made and some of them were so wrong. I thought this one hit the right note and @chirinebakal then said I think quite a few of us could agree and emphasize with these statements. I have always wondered just how you run a Braunstein and what kind of knowledge base you need to do it justice.
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:15:23 GMT -5
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:24:10 GMT -5
Then someone else said @chirinebakal replied @chirinebakal just for the record, I don't think there are more than a tiny few who are Arnesonians (worshippers) and Gygaxians (worshippers) on this forum. I think there are the majority that are fond of both and want to see Arneson get his due without it being viewed as dissing Gygax. As someone else said you can respect both for what they did to bring D&D to us without having to hate on either one of them. They are only human and like all of us made their share of mistakes. I think all of us would love to know more about playing those original games before anything was published.
You can say good things about both here, for we are very sick of hearing the bad stuff. The bad stuff is TMI.
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:32:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree lets just play the game, whichever one is on for tonight. None of them were saints and neither are any of us.
@chirinebakal , I think I missed something, what is named after Dave Wesely?
IIRC Dave Arneson credited Dave Wesely with the idea of the roleplaying game which Dave Arneson then implemented. If I understand it correctly Dave Wesely was not happy (at least for a while) with how the "Braunstein" games went while Dave Arneson dived in with both feet.
Is that correct?
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:40:50 GMT -5
SO this is all context leading up to the start of the first Q&A thread. [the last video was blocked This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.] So I guess we will just have to see the whole film for the last one.
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 10, 2018 21:50:55 GMT -5
I for one would like to ask @chirinebakal, but I think first I should read the three threads and see what things have already been answered.
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Jun 10, 2018 22:53:28 GMT -5
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 11, 2018 10:08:07 GMT -5
@chirinebakal, the two video links above that work are classics, and I can well understand why both Dave and Gary enjoyed each other as the ref.
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Post by ripx187 on Jun 14, 2018 17:39:01 GMT -5
This is very well written True Black Raven and definitely worthy of an Exalt. Now if you can just summarize and make sense of the rest of that mess like you did this part I might give you another one! Seriously though, this is good stuff and a very different approach to gaming than what I am used to.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 15, 2018 10:18:25 GMT -5
This is very well written True Black Raven and definitely worthy of an Exalt. Now if you can just summarize and make sense of the rest of that mess like you did this part I might give you another one! Seriously though, this is good stuff and a very different approach to gaming than what I am used to. I must be a little slow today, what am I missing here?
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 15, 2018 12:35:20 GMT -5
This is very well written True Black Raven and definitely worthy of an Exalt. Now if you can just summarize and make sense of the rest of that mess like you did this part I might give you another one! Seriously though, this is good stuff and a very different approach to gaming than what I am used to. I must be a little slow today, what am I missing here? I think ripx187, is referring to the whole thread of content that True Black Raven posted, but I could be wrong & itwas something more specific.
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Post by ripx187 on Jun 15, 2018 16:15:14 GMT -5
Yes, this is complimenting the thread as a whole, especially Raven's original remarks. Then a tease that implied that I expected him to summarize the 800 pages linked as well, which I don't. He did a great job of cataloguing!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 22:48:32 GMT -5
I am not very sorry that the RPGsite thread seems to be such a mess; it is, in the final analysis, a bunch of friends sitting around in the corner booth in the pub/bar having a chat. As I have mentioned several times, I work much better in a Q&A format then anything else; the people who ask me their questions get the best and most honest answer that I can give, based on what I know and have experienced. Hence the lack of 'organization' which I have been taken to task for by several people on that site. If it needs moderation, I'd be happy to work with whomever wants to take on the task. If I may, I would like to very respectfully remind people that if you want me to participate in a discussion, please take the time to e-mail me (chirine@aethervox.net) to let me know what's going on. Due to my schedule, I do not look at the Internet all that much, and usually do so in response to prompts from a forum that I have message traffic. I will try to get back to people as soon as I can, but please be patient; I have a pretty full schedule, most of the time. This month, for example, I've had a large game every weekend: Shieldmaidens, 5E, Free RPG Day (tomorrow, at nine am, and I still have to load the car), and Shieldmaidens again. As you can see from the photos on my blog, these my archaic style of gaming does require some time and energy. (Next month, two weekends are booked for the 5e campaign and a speaking engagement out-of-state.) I don;t mind you talking to me, but I'd like to know if I'm supposed to be participating in the conversation. Thanks!
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 16, 2018 7:12:18 GMT -5
I am not very sorry that the RPGsite thread seems to be such a mess; it is, in the final analysis, a bunch of friends sitting around in the corner booth in the pub/bar having a chat. As I have mentioned several times, I work much better in a Q&A format then anything else; the people who ask me their questions get the best and most honest answer that I can give, based on what I know and have experienced. Hence the lack of 'organization' which I have been taken to task for by several people on that site. If it needs moderation, I'd be happy to work with whomever wants to take on the task. If I may, I would like to very respectfully remind people that if you want me to participate in a discussion, please take the time to e-mail me (chirine@aethervox.net) to let me know what's going on. Due to my schedule, I do not look at the Internet all that much, and usually do so in response to prompts from a forum that I have message traffic. I will try to get back to people as soon as I can, but please be patient; I have a pretty full schedule, most of the time. This month, for example, I've had a large game every weekend: Shieldmaidens, 5E, Free RPG Day (tomorrow, at nine am, and I still have to load the car), and Shieldmaidens again. As you can see from the photos on my blog, these my archaic style of gaming does require some time and energy. (Next month, two weekends are booked for the 5e campaign and a speaking engagement out-of-state.) I don;t mind you talking to me, but I'd like to know if I'm supposed to be participating in the conversation. Thanks! You heard the man, send him an email every now and then, but it doesn't look like he will do any replying until after the weekend. @chirinebakal, it looks like the mess comment was mainly teasing another poster, but I would agree that any good Q&A thread is a mess, a glorious mess, which is what conversations between friends always are.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 16, 2018 7:14:01 GMT -5
Everyone else, lets try to get all the questions for @chirinebakal in this thread and not all over the forum or if they really need to be in another thread, then let him know that.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 16, 2018 9:54:56 GMT -5
Everyone else, lets try to get all the questions for @chirinebakal in this thread and not all over the forum or if they really need to be in another thread, then let him know that. Check. Even with my predilection for reintroducing chaos when things get too serious.
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Post by ripx187 on Jun 16, 2018 12:13:38 GMT -5
@chirinebakal, I apologize if I offended you, I was just being a ham. Truth be told, I'm just a hillbilly who is interested. Gamemastering to me is an art, and like any art, one must study the masters. As I have said elsewhere, you have a very unique approach to gaming. The incorporated wargame that formed the foundation of RPG has been kind of lost. I mean, there are hints that it is there, but for the average joe who picked up these books decades later, we simply lacked the fundamentals that were implied. This, I feel, is where the game changed. Whether it a good change or a bad change is moot, but from my perspective, I am deeply interested in war games, especially how they can be applied to tabletop games. I am in the process of unlearning as I have discovered that much of what I believed to be facts was nothing more than uneducated opinion. I never got to play with any of the big names that float around our hobby, I was born after the glory days of Avalon Hill, and didn't even know that a wargaming community was even around. My first experience was setting up Star Wars figures and stealing game parts as a child just to see what would happen. I had no idea what I was doing, but I had fun doing it. Enough fun to put up with everybody calling me weird. I always did enjoy collecting and painting figures, but man is that aspect of the hobby expensive. I have a hodgepodge of lead, but collecting monsters is really difficult. When I do set up the table it is 1:1 melee scale, setting up an orc ambush looks horrible. I've got 3 lead orcs and the rest are little tiny game pieces that I borrow from my Lord of the Rings RISK game, which is far from impressive. The players are terrified of the lead orcs but laugh at the little ones. At my local shop, it isn't very helpful, there isn't much demand for what I want. There are the Warhammer boxes but those things are way beyond my price range, not to mention that they are made of plastic which I find dubious and a horrible value. My question is, do you have any tips or words of wisdom for buying the right figures, a decent number of them without going overboard, and maybe some secret for acquiring them without having to go without eating for a few weeks Is it just me or does one have to spend more now than they used to? How do you do it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2018 12:34:08 GMT -5
The quick answer is, "a bit at a time." Chirine has been building up his miniatures collection literally since the mid 1970s. When a local game shop, "The Little Tin Soldier Shop," had a "broken figures for cheap" box he spent hours and hours sorting through it for bargain basement figures. That's just one example. Mostly, "a bit at a time over a long time."
(Also, ask him about the Chinese war rockets! )
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 0:01:09 GMT -5
You heard the man, send him an email every now and then, but it doesn't look like he will do any replying until after the weekend. Back tomorrow, most likely. Long day today; the game session went from 10:15 am to 8:45 pm, with no breaks; I was fed at the table through the kindness of friends. Had an average of five to six players all day, with eight players at peak times. Talked to over twenty people about Tekumel and Ye Olde Gaming as we played. Off to get some sleep, if folks would excuse me...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 15:50:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree lets just play the game, whichever one is on for tonight. None of them were saints and neither are any of us. @chirinebakal , I think I missed something, what is named after Dave Wesely? IIRC Dave Arneson credited Dave Wesely with the idea of the roleplaying game which Dave Arneson then implemented. If I understand it correctly Dave Wesely was not happy (at least for a while) with how the "Braunstein" games went while Dave Arneson dived in with both feet. Is that correct? 1. Try: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Church2. Yes. That's what they told me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 16:00:46 GMT -5
@chirinebakal , I apologize if I offended you, I was just being a ham. Truth be told, I'm just a hillbilly who is interested. Gamemastering to me is an art, and like any art, one must study the masters. As I have said elsewhere, you have a very unique approach to gaming. The incorporated wargame that formed the foundation of RPG has been kind of lost. I mean, there are hints that it is there, but for the average joe who picked up these books decades later, we simply lacked the fundamentals that were implied. This, I feel, is where the game changed. Whether it a good change or a bad change is moot, but from my perspective, I am deeply interested in war games, especially how they can be applied to tabletop games. I am in the process of unlearning as I have discovered that much of what I believed to be facts was nothing more than uneducated opinion. I never got to play with any of the big names that float around our hobby, I was born after the glory days of Avalon Hill, and didn't even know that a wargaming community was even around. My first experience was setting up Star Wars figures and stealing game parts as a child just to see what would happen. I had no idea what I was doing, but I had fun doing it. Enough fun to put up with everybody calling me weird. I always did enjoy collecting and painting figures, but man is that aspect of the hobby expensive. I have a hodgepodge of lead, but collecting monsters is really difficult. When I do set up the table it is 1:1 melee scale, setting up an orc ambush looks horrible. I've got 3 lead orcs and the rest are little tiny game pieces that I borrow from my Lord of the Rings RISK game, which is far from impressive. The players are terrified of the lead orcs but laugh at the little ones. At my local shop, it isn't very helpful, there isn't much demand for what I want. There are the Warhammer boxes but those things are way beyond my price range, not to mention that they are made of plastic which I find dubious and a horrible value. My question is, do you have any tips or words of wisdom for buying the right figures, a decent number of them without going overboard, and maybe some secret for acquiring them without having to go without eating for a few weeks Is it just me or does one have to spend more now than they used to? How do you do it? 1. No offense taken. The thing is a disorganized mess, and that's that. If somebody wants to organize up my thoughts, they are more then welcome to do it; I have neither the time, the stamina, the energy, or the skills needed to do it. 2. Agreed. It can be too expensive, and it's why I don't buy many of the current product lines 3. Buy low, and take your time. Yes, I have over 5,000 miniatures in the game room, and I measure my scenery by the cubic meter. But I've also been at this for forty years, and I buy a little here and a little there when and if I can get pricing that I can afford. And, to be honest, it helps that the kind of thing that I like usually gets sold at deep discounts when it goes out of fashion; I've gotten a lot of my stuff at pet stores, for example. Buy only what you like and want, and only what's useful in your gaming and with which your game group will have some fun. Look at plastics; they are often cheaper - see also the WizKids and Reaper lines - and usually have what normal gamers want / need for their games. Being different, I keep costs down by using them as conversion fodder for my needs. Does any of this help?
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 17, 2018 19:36:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree lets just play the game, whichever one is on for tonight. None of them were saints and neither are any of us. @chirinebakal , I think I missed something, what is named after Dave Wesely? IIRC Dave Arneson credited Dave Wesely with the idea of the roleplaying game which Dave Arneson then implemented. If I understand it correctly Dave Wesely was not happy (at least for a while) with how the "Braunstein" games went while Dave Arneson dived in with both feet. Is that correct? 1. Try: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Church2. Yes. That's what they told me. I have no idea who said what in the above exchange, so I'm going to pretend it's a hoax, a dream, or an imaginary tale.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 17, 2018 19:39:14 GMT -5
To whomever asked: Yes, we have to spend more for anything, including things that didn't used to exist.
And now I sound much like my Great Depression Kid dad.
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Post by ripx187 on Jun 18, 2018 13:58:23 GMT -5
@chirinebakal , I apologize if I offended you, I was just being a ham. Truth be told, I'm just a hillbilly who is interested. Gamemastering to me is an art, and like any art, one must study the masters. As I have said elsewhere, you have a very unique approach to gaming. The incorporated wargame that formed the foundation of RPG has been kind of lost. I mean, there are hints that it is there, but for the average joe who picked up these books decades later, we simply lacked the fundamentals that were implied. This, I feel, is where the game changed. Whether it a good change or a bad change is moot, but from my perspective, I am deeply interested in war games, especially how they can be applied to tabletop games. I am in the process of unlearning as I have discovered that much of what I believed to be facts was nothing more than uneducated opinion. I never got to play with any of the big names that float around our hobby, I was born after the glory days of Avalon Hill, and didn't even know that a wargaming community was even around. My first experience was setting up Star Wars figures and stealing game parts as a child just to see what would happen. I had no idea what I was doing, but I had fun doing it. Enough fun to put up with everybody calling me weird. I always did enjoy collecting and painting figures, but man is that aspect of the hobby expensive. I have a hodgepodge of lead, but collecting monsters is really difficult. When I do set up the table it is 1:1 melee scale, setting up an orc ambush looks horrible. I've got 3 lead orcs and the rest are little tiny game pieces that I borrow from my Lord of the Rings RISK game, which is far from impressive. The players are terrified of the lead orcs but laugh at the little ones. At my local shop, it isn't very helpful, there isn't much demand for what I want. There are the Warhammer boxes but those things are way beyond my price range, not to mention that they are made of plastic which I find dubious and a horrible value. My question is, do you have any tips or words of wisdom for buying the right figures, a decent number of them without going overboard, and maybe some secret for acquiring them without having to go without eating for a few weeks Is it just me or does one have to spend more now than they used to? How do you do it? 1. No offense taken. The thing is a disorganized mess, and that's that. If somebody wants to organize up my thoughts, they are more then welcome to do it; I have neither the time, the stamina, the energy, or the skills needed to do it. 2. Agreed. It can be too expensive, and it's why I don't buy many of the current product lines 3. Buy low, and take your time. Yes, I have over 5,000 miniatures in the game room, and I measure my scenery by the cubic meter. But I've also been at this for forty years, and I buy a little here and a little there when and if I can get pricing that I can afford. And, to be honest, it helps that the kind of thing that I like usually gets sold at deep discounts when it goes out of fashion; I've gotten a lot of my stuff at pet stores, for example. Buy only what you like and want, and only what's useful in your gaming and with which your game group will have some fun. Look at plastics; they are often cheaper - see also the WizKids and Reaper lines - and usually have what normal gamers want / need for their games. Being different, I keep costs down by using them as conversion fodder for my needs. Does any of this help? Incredibly! Ral Partha was always my favourite, but Reaper is up there as well. If RPG is a fringe hobby, those of us that enjoy collecting and painting miniatures is even smaller. Anyone that I meet who enjoys it as well is a real treat to talk to. I do incorporate it the best that I can in the game, and I was close to being lynched when I even suggested playing without a grid. I mean it got ugly, and these people actually love me! So we stick to the grid and all of its limitations.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 18, 2018 14:56:31 GMT -5
"miniatures is even smaller"
I see what you did there.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 18, 2018 17:10:57 GMT -5
I've never played with any kind of grid for wilderness adventures. I do use paper with light quarter inch squares in dungeons to draw on.
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Post by Q Man on Jun 18, 2018 17:46:27 GMT -5
"miniatures is even smaller"
I see what you did there. Wow, that is small!
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Post by True Black Raven on Jun 18, 2018 21:01:36 GMT -5
This is very well written True Black Raven and definitely worthy of an Exalt. Now if you can just summarize and make sense of the rest of that mess like you did this part I might give you another one! Seriously though, this is good stuff and a very different approach to gaming than what I am used to. Thank you! There is a lot there and well worth the read.
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Post by Q Man on Jun 24, 2018 16:51:56 GMT -5
Part III is up to 14 pages and growing.
He has good taste in music.
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