|
|
Post by dilvish on Jun 1, 2018 10:57:57 GMT -5
Which method of handling AC do you prefer? Feel free to explain or comment on your answer.
|
|
|
|
Post by dilvish on Jun 1, 2018 11:02:54 GMT -5
IMO the original Descending AC used in OD&D is clear and simple to use and I see no reason to switch. IMO the argument about it being mathematically difficult are at best disingenuous. I am also baffled by the charge that it is counter-intuitive, in case they have not noticed most thing are counter-intuitive. Ever deal with any government agency? Ever attend school? Ever talk to another human being?
|
|
|
|
Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 1, 2018 11:44:19 GMT -5
Since I had never played war games before, descending ac was difficult for me to memorize. Then again, I didn't understand the rules until I played it and realized that I didn't need to know the rules.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin Pete on Jun 1, 2018 13:14:12 GMT -5
I never found it the least bit difficult. A lot of things in D&D (old school versus new school) are like comparing the US Customary system (derived from the Imperial Units of the British Empire) versus the Metric System devised by the French. One has naturally derived units and is full of flavor in our language and the other is dry and sterile, lacking life. Saying such as, "a miss is as good as a mile" and "The whole nine yards" are useful and full of flavor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 1, 2018 13:22:05 GMT -5
I like the OD&D & 1e AD&D combat matrices, they gave you a target Number that the player needed to hit and in the case of 1e AD&D only the DM needed to bother with it, the player just rolled to hit. It was 2e that complicated it by "saving" space and making THAC-0 a math equation. If it wasn't for 2e THAC-0, the 3.5 D&D's ascending AC wouldn't be needed. That said, I do understand players that never played OD&D or 1e AD&D but started with 3.5 or 2e AD&D and moved up to 3.5 to prefer the simplicity of Ascending AC.
When I run my OD&D or OSR games I'll keep a character reference with their current "To-Hit AC" TNs so I'll ask the player to roll to hit & check their THAC compared to their opponents AC - simple. One quick glance.
|
|
|
|
Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 1, 2018 13:41:06 GMT -5
Nope. Didn't start with 2e; started with OD&D then moved around through TnT, Runequest 1.5, Traveller, V&V and... Just couldn't stop myself. And early on, I thought AC was so abstract that it lent itself to silly abuse. I'm all for abusing serious rules.
Somewhere around 1978 or 1978, I read the First Fantasy Campaign and began neglecting rules immediately. That manuscript was poorly organized, but filled with pure inspiration.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 1, 2018 16:37:58 GMT -5
Nope. Didn't start with 2e; started with OD&D then moved around through TnT, Runequest 1.5, Traveller, V&V and... Just couldn't stop myself. And early on, I thought AC was so abstract that it lent itself to silly abuse. I'm all for abusing serious rules. Somewhere around 1978 or 1978, I read the First Fantasy Campaign and began neglecting rules immediately. That manuscript was poorly organized, but filled with pure inspiration. I was referring to the shift from Descending to Ascending was instigated by 2e to 3.5 IMHO; not that you mormonyoyoman began with 2e AD&D, I am sorry I wasn't more clear. Like you I quickly moved from D&D to other systems but unlike you I was nearly always the player not the ref. Now that I prefer to ref & have found myself desiring to run OD&D (or games inspired by it) that I actually like Descending AC as my players will not even know the creatures AC in any case. |
|
|
|
Post by ripx187 on Jun 1, 2018 20:49:11 GMT -5
I can't get ascending AC, it's backwards to me. My first game was 2e and I stuck with it. I personally feel that THAC0 is an elegant mechanic which sped up the game by allowing the player to handle hits and misses. We've done it this way for years, but I must admit to being kind of excited to run things with a matrix. It is just something that we've never done.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartholmew Quarrels on Jun 1, 2018 20:59:59 GMT -5
The original DAC for me, I can't stand AAC!
|
|
|
|
Post by Q Man on Jun 2, 2018 11:09:32 GMT -5
I like the OD&D DAC, it is not like counting down is a foreign concept. As shotgun gauges and wire gauges get to smaller number the size increases. A 20 gauge shotgun uses a smaller slug than an 8 gauge shotgun. Wire that is 8 gauge is larger in diameter than 12 gauge wire.
|
|
|
|
Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 2, 2018 11:44:35 GMT -5
I'm still stuck on "viaduct," never mind "Why a Gauge."
|
|
|
|
Post by True Black Raven on Jun 2, 2018 12:51:25 GMT -5
DAC is not broken and does not need fixed. Never waste time doing things that don't need to be done.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 2, 2018 13:28:20 GMT -5
Frankly I think the whole AAC vs DAC could be a non-issue if the Referee did their job, keep the AC to themselves and just have the Player roll & the Ref then simply glances at their notes and combat matrix cheat sheet in front of them to see if the PC hit or not. If the Player doesn't know the AC of the creature and simply rolls and applies the needed modifiers there is no issue.
DAC works fine as others have said in this thread, though I am not opposed to AAC but if I am running a OD&D or related pre-2e AD&D game or one based on them I'll use DAC. If I run Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Treasure Hunters or another OSR that uses AAC I'll use it for ease of use. That all said DAC is now my preferred 'To-Hit AC' method.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin Pete on Jun 2, 2018 13:41:58 GMT -5
Frankly I think the whole AAC vr DAC could be a non-issue if the Referee did their job, keep the AC to themselves and just have the layer roll & the Ref then simply glances at their notes and combat matrix cheat sheet in front of them to see if the PC hit or not. If the player doesn't know the AC of the creature and simply rolls and applies the needed modifiers there is no issue. This right on the money, "Just tell me what you rolled and I'll tell you if you hit" to paraphrase Arneson. |
|
|
|
Post by Admin Pete on Jun 2, 2018 13:44:28 GMT -5
To the person who voted for AAC, it is OK if you want to post and tell us why you like it. Disagreement is permitted and one person's crazy is another person's brilliant. No one here (looks around) is going to give you (any of you) a hard time if you like something other than DAC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 2, 2018 13:59:36 GMT -5
To the person who voted for AAC, it is OK if you want to post and tell us why you like it. Disagreement is permitted and one person's crazy is another person's brilliant. No one here (looks around) is going to give you (any of you) a hard time if you like something other than DAC. I second this, just because I am a cranky grognard doesn't mean my way is the right way except for myself. We may be opinionated but at the same time we are often very open-minded to other opinions. In the past I hated DAC as I had mainly played 3.5 D&D and hated 2e's THAC-0, but after getting to know OD&D, Basic D&D, B/X D&D & 1e AD&D again DAC just sings to me more than AAC - but I'll never like THAC-0 (sorry ripx187, I know 2e is your baby). |
|
|
|
Post by True Black Raven on Jun 2, 2018 14:03:23 GMT -5
To the person who voted for AAC, it is OK if you want to post and tell us why you like it. Disagreement is permitted and one person's crazy is another person's brilliant. No one here (looks around) is going to give you (any of you) a hard time if you like something other than DAC. I second this, just because I am a cranky grognard doesn't mean my way is the right way except for myself. We may be opinionated but at the same time we are often very open-minded to other opinions. In the past I hated DAC as I had mainly played 3.5 D&D and hated 2e's THAC-0, but after getting to know OD&D, Basic D&D, B/X D&D & 1e AD&D again DAC just sings to me more than AAC - but I'll never like THAC-0 (sorry ripx187 , I know 2e is your baby). Cranky grognard "opinionated but at the same time we are often very open-minded to other opinions" yep that R us. |
|
|
|
Post by Keyone1234 on Jun 2, 2018 18:56:11 GMT -5
I don't see any reason to switch, DAC does the job just fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Robert the Black on Jun 21, 2018 12:57:58 GMT -5
I don't see any reason to switch, DAC does the job just fine. Ditto! |
|
|
|
Post by Warrior Twin One on Aug 21, 2018 0:20:43 GMT -5
DAC or the highway, this is a deal breaker for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 21, 2018 0:22:12 GMT -5
DAC or the highway, this is a deal breaker for me. Yes, another of the DAC clan! |
|
|
|
Post by Warrior Twin One on Aug 21, 2018 0:23:37 GMT -5
DAC or the highway, this is a deal breaker for me. Yes, another of the DAC clan! Momma raised us right! |
|
|
|
Post by Warrior Twin Two on Aug 22, 2018 10:23:36 GMT -5
Yes, another of the DAC clan! Momma raised us right! Yep, Momma done good! |
|
|
|
Post by Q. F o s t e r on May 2, 2022 13:18:03 GMT -5
Get that AAC out of here.  |
|
|
|
Post by clooney on May 2, 2022 13:31:55 GMT -5
Old School Baby, get that AAC to the garbage dump.
|
|
|
|
Post by Snuffy Smith on May 3, 2022 12:23:30 GMT -5
AAC boo!!! hiss!!!  The original is the only one I use. |
|
|
|
Post by Ibizan Zamway on May 3, 2022 21:25:48 GMT -5
DAC only
|
|
|
|
Post by nobody on Jun 16, 2022 19:18:21 GMT -5
Option 1
|
|
Kujik
Traveler
Posts: 208
|
Post by Kujik on Aug 15, 2022 18:39:50 GMT -5
DAC
|
|
|
|
Post by The Man From Coventry on Aug 17, 2022 16:21:18 GMT -5
DAC
|
|
The original is the only one I use.
