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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Mar 5, 2018 11:50:57 GMT -5
I recently learned of a thing called an X-Card by John Stavropoulos. I am violently opposed to such a thing and perhaps explaining why would violate the rules, so I am just looking for yeah or nay, but not really for anyone to go into the reasons. I am just looking for a bit of poll feedback before I do a blog post on the subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 12:16:26 GMT -5
I recently learned of a thing called an X-Card. I am violently opposed to such a thing and perhaps explaining why would violate the rules, so I am just looking for yeah or nay, but not really for anyone to go into the reasons. I am just looking for a bit of poll feedback before I do a blog post on the subject. Your link brings me back to this post. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 12:29:27 GMT -5
I did a bit of searching and found the term.
I’m not sure how I will feel after reflecting more deeply, but my initial impressions go like this.
If I were gaming with a new group, especially persons new to the game, I can see a need for such an aid. It would assist the referee with getting to know what the table likes and doesn’t like.
For myself? I would rather just find a referee whose narrative style and general tone of adventure suit me. I doubt anyone would offend me to the point where I’d need to hold up a card, decades in the healthcare system (including working in prison settings as a healthcare worker) have left me pretty thick-skinned, but I wouldn’t want to stifle a ref’s creativity by creating a “no fly” zone for him or her. And there are game styles that aren’t my cup of tea (beyond a convention game or other “one shot”).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 12:32:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 14:16:48 GMT -5
There is no option for "this is a dumb idea. Talk about things beforehand."
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Mar 5, 2018 14:55:17 GMT -5
I recently learned of a thing called an X-Card. I am violently opposed to such a thing and perhaps explaining why would violate the rules, so I am just looking for yeah or nay, but not really for anyone to go into the reasons. I am just looking for a bit of poll feedback before I do a blog post on the subject. Your link brings me back to this post. The link should work now and go to the document by the person responsible for its existence. |
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Mar 5, 2018 14:57:22 GMT -5
There is no option for "this is a dumb idea. Talk about things beforehand." I kept the options just yes or no to avoid going off on a rant that should be a blog post and not a forum post.  |
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Post by makofan on Mar 5, 2018 15:03:49 GMT -5
Well I'm with Gronan
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Mar 5, 2018 15:23:56 GMT -5
This is the link that sent me looking for more info. I find this type of thinking to be appalling. IMC the assumption is that you are a real adult or a young person that has been raised by a real adult. If you don't fit either of those criteria, you would be weeded out long before you got an invite to my table. The most basic reason for not including graphic bloody gore and multilation in the game is that it is boring and adds nothing to the game for adults. It might be titillating for children, but no sane adult wants to send a child down the path that leads to them being jaded by the gore. The same basic reason applies to not putting graphic sex in the game, it is a boring waste of time to describe sex to adults and no sane adult would do that with children, your rpg game is private environment for those parent-child talks. So that eliminates two of geekdad's reasons in favor of the X-Card. A third reason he uses is I don't buy it for a moment, if you can not separate fantasy and reality enough to role with it, I have a lack of sympathy for you. We all have an area of expertise and our friends and family use inaccurate language all the time. If you role with it and are not an a** and constantly badgering them about it in real life, then you should be able to role with it in game and not be an a** there either. The other reason he uses is If you have problems like this that are so severe they require professional help and likely medication, then you are probably better off just avoiding rpgs and stick to more canned experiences such as cards and board games where the full content is known up front. |
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Mar 5, 2018 15:26:23 GMT -5
There is no option for "this is a dumb idea. Talk about things beforehand." It is a dumb idea and if someone is invited, they are told what to expect. But it is not a negotiation, it is this is how I run my game. |
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Post by makofan on Mar 5, 2018 15:52:25 GMT -5
In one online pBp, a player PMed me that he was uncomfortable with a certain aspect of the campaign. While changing it made the campaign slightly less realistic, it did not really detract from anybody's enjoyment of the game, so I made the change and we continued on happily. So it really is all about communication
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 16:07:03 GMT -5
"A player has arachnophobia, and taps the X-Card when too many details are given. (The hairs covering the abdomen of the great beast bristle as you hear the clicking of its chelicerae.)"
"Blah blah blah. We kill the feckin' giant spider and get ON with it."
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 5, 2018 16:07:16 GMT -5
The whole idea is appalling - I run dark & grim games, I let people know it a head of time. But that said I rarely if ever go into gory detail or deal with sex, beyond 'the barest hints that something occurred' often out of frame. If my players want their characters to get laid they can take someone upstairs & imagine what happens - there is no need for roleplaying that. Violence & slavery happens in my game, in one campaign the players went around killing slavers & freeing slaves on their own, which was great. In the end I'll not censor my game for delicate little snowflakes but I won't do stuff over the top just to push boundaries. If I want to envision something gory or sexual I'll write a short story & be done with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 16:11:12 GMT -5
"So how "grim and dark" is "grim and dark"?" is the obvious question.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 16:19:57 GMT -5
I don’t think x-cards are the greatest idea I’ve ever heard nor do I necessarily find it to be a bad idea. I’ve only got the glimpse the author provided and I don’t feel it is enough to pass judgment on his players or his refereeing technique.
I will say I’ll happily adapt my campaign to my players. No players means no campaign, and if keeping my players happy means I need to change my refereeing style? I’m happy to agree to reasonable demands.
For example: players want a wilderness crawl, I want to run a dungeon. Guess which I’m going to primarily run during our sessions? Yep, time to buy hex paper!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 5, 2018 16:35:03 GMT -5
My settings tend to have slavery, they are also places where brutality is common, have dark corruptive magic, where Deities & demons who push or nudge things behind the scenes with repercussions that ripple throughout the campaign & gore where needed ( not combat per se but in the aftermath of a horrible atrocity)to paint a scene.
I am influenced by the art of Russ Nicholson, Frank Frazetta & Brom, the stories of Fritz Leiber & George R.R. Martin, among others. I am a fan of gory horror films & Metal music so that also influences my tastes as a GM & player. Yet on the other side I am influenced by anime/manga (some of which can be dark & graphic) & Battle Chasers, but most of my players have been murder hobos so darker games become the default up until now.Though if I can convince my nieces & nephews to play I'll run lighter toned games inspired by anime since they are fans of such things as I am.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 5, 2018 16:49:19 GMT -5
I don’t think x-cards are the greatest idea I’ve ever heard nor do I find necessarily find it to be a bad idea. I’ve only got the glimpse the author provided and I don’t feel it is enough to pass judgment on his players or his refereeing technique. I will say I’ll happily adapt my campaign to my players. No players means no campaign, and if keeping my players happy means I need to change my refereeing style? I’m happy to agree to reasonable demands. For example: players want a wilderness crawl, I want to run a dungeon. Guess which I’m going to primarily run during our sessions? Yep, time to buy hex paper! Understandable @piper, which is why I'll seek out players who prefer darker rules-light OD&D or B/X D&D style games. If I can't enjoy myself, why bother run a game, right? I'll run lighter fair for my nieces & nephews but I am not interested in such games as a GM in general (exception to this rule below), though I can play in them. That said if I was running a demo game at a store or con, I'd run a more vanilla game but let them know if it was my home game things tend to be grim & dark. That all said part of me would like to run some thing inspired by either Log Horizon/ Sword Art Online or Is it wrong to pick-up girls in a Dungeon? for something a bit lighter (maybe for my nieces & nephews this summer or a PbP). I am not opposed to lighter fair but I prefer darker campaigns, plus it is hard to find role players into anime/manga style campaigns - there are reasons games like BESM, Anima Beyond Fantasy are very niche games with very little or no support. |
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Post by makofan on Mar 5, 2018 16:50:44 GMT -5
For example: players want a wilderness crawl On the lighter side - this never happens!!  DM has beautiful map, all sorts of locations, and they all go to waste (cries in his beer) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 16:52:10 GMT -5
For example: players want a wilderness crawl On the lighter side - this never happens!! DM has beautiful map, all sorts of locations, and they all go to waste (cries in his beer) I chuckled out loud at this. How many times have our players made a ruin of our carefully crafted evening of fun & adventure? LOL! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 16:55:02 GMT -5
I'll run lighter fair for my nieces & nephews but I am not interested in such games as a GM in general (exception to this rule below), though I can play in them. Yes! I’ll alter my refereeing style to a degree, but I’m with you on this point. I won’t run a game I don’t want to run. And, also like you, I’ll play lots of games that I would never personally run myself. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 5, 2018 17:07:32 GMT -5
For example: players want a wilderness crawl On the lighter side - this never happens!! DM has beautiful map, all sorts of locations, and they all go to waste (cries in his beer) Oh the misery of GM prep-work spoiled by selfish players going - "looky here, I want to go there instead & gather herbs". Instead of going into that dark woods or dungeon. [the example actually happened, my players gathered plants to plant in their bloody garden instead of following a few adventure seeds I had worked out.] |
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Post by The Master on Mar 6, 2018 0:03:49 GMT -5
For example: players want a wilderness crawl, I want to run a dungeon. Guess which I’m going to primarily run during our sessions? Yep, time to buy hex paper! That's nothing needing an X-card, just common sense, "Hey guys, glad you're all here, wot's your poison tonight?" |
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Post by raikenclw on Mar 6, 2018 0:05:19 GMT -5
On the lighter side - this never happens!! DM has beautiful map, all sorts of locations, and they all go to waste (cries in his beer) Oh the misery of GM prep-work spoiled by selfish players going - "looky here, I want to go there instead & gather herbs". Instead of going into that dark woods or dungeon. [the example actually happened, my players gathered plants to plant in their bloody garden instead of following a few adventure seeds I had worked out.] Me, I would just adapt the lead-in they've given me. The herbs they set out to gather just *happen* to grow only in the shade of the Dark Woods . . . |
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Post by The Master on Mar 6, 2018 0:06:08 GMT -5
On the lighter side - this never happens!! DM has beautiful map, all sorts of locations, and they all go to waste (cries in his beer) I chuckled out loud at this. How many times have our players made a ruin of our carefully crafted evening of fun & adventure? LOL! I would love to be able to make beautiful maps. But it is not a waste, you had all the fun of making it. I try to never have preconceived ideas about what my players will do. That way I am not thrown for a loop. |
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Post by raikenclw on Mar 6, 2018 0:08:15 GMT -5
As to the X-card bit, something like that would just confuse me, because apparently I'm supposed to just know what's being carded. As fast as things happen around the usual gaming tables at which I've sat, someone who's been insulted would have to be about as quick off the mark as a game show contestant or what offended him/her will have already fled everyone's mind before that tap goes down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 0:09:53 GMT -5
For example: players want a wilderness crawl, I want to run a dungeon. Guess which I’m going to primarily run during our sessions? Yep, time to buy hex paper! That's nothing needing an X-card, just common sense, "Hey guys, glad you're all here, wot's your poison tonight?" So it's the idea of the card, specifically, you don't like? I see it as another potential tool. I doubt I'd use it, but neither do I have a problem with the concept. I can see the advantage of the cards if, for example, I was playing with children. Or, a mix of children and adults; basically any environment in which a child might hesitate to forward their opinion. But, yes ... I should think it wouldn't be necessary with a gathering of adults. I've learned long ago never to discard a potentially useful idea. That, to me at least, is common sense. |
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Post by raikenclw on Mar 6, 2018 0:12:11 GMT -5
I chuckled out loud at this. How many times have our players made a ruin of our carefully crafted evening of fun & adventure? LOL! I would love to be able to make beautiful maps. But it is not a waste, you had all the fun of making it. I try to never have preconceived ideas about what my players will do. That way I am not thrown for a loop. I love maps. But I don't usually mark the adventure location on the area map. So no matter which way the party wanders, they just happen to end up at the adventure location anyway. Maybe I just have a good poker face, but my players have never seemed to realize that anything "funny" is going on. In fact, they've praised me for my intricate plotting, especially my ability to anticipate what they're going to do, when even THEY didn't know what that was going to be! |
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Post by The Archivist on Mar 6, 2018 0:19:11 GMT -5
I would love to be able to make beautiful maps. But it is not a waste, you had all the fun of making it. I try to never have preconceived ideas about what my players will do. That way I am not thrown for a loop. I love maps. But I don't usually mark the adventure location on the area map. So no matter which way the party wanders, they just happen to end up at the adventure location anyway. Maybe I just have a good poker face, but my players have never seemed to realize that anything "funny" is going on. In fact, they've praised me for my intricate plotting, especially my ability to anticipate what they're going to do, when even THEY didn't know what that was going to be! I don't do that, anywhere they go it is something different, always a unique adventure location. |
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Post by raikenclw on Mar 6, 2018 0:29:11 GMT -5
I love maps. But I don't usually mark the adventure location on the area map. So no matter which way the party wanders, they just happen to end up at the adventure location anyway. Maybe I just have a good poker face, but my players have never seemed to realize that anything "funny" is going on. In fact, they've praised me for my intricate plotting, especially my ability to anticipate what they're going to do, when even THEY didn't know what that was going to be! I don't do that, anywhere they go it is something different, always a unique adventure location. YMMV, but if I've invested advance thought and prep into a particular adventure, then I'm going to use that. The players never need to know that the layout they're exploring was originally supposed to be a deep, dark natural cavern and not the interior of a temple to the Nameless God which the party's cleric has a mad-on against. All I have to do is shuffle some papers, roll several dice (ignoring the results but pretending to carefully note them down) then doodle a bit and - Viola! - I've "created" a random dungeon. Now, if I *haven't* invested advance thought and prep, then I'm perfectly fine with creating something totally random out of thin air for them. I just try to keep good notes, so that I can figure out later how to work it into my existing world. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Mar 6, 2018 1:09:34 GMT -5
Oh the misery of GM prep-work spoiled by selfish players going - "looky here, I want to go there instead & gather herbs". Instead of going into that dark woods or dungeon. [the example actually happened, my players gathered plants to plant in their bloody garden instead of following a few adventure seeds I had worked out.] Me, I would just adapt the lead-in they've given me. The herbs they set out to gather just *happen* to grow only in the shade of the Dark Woods . . . Oh I know but they were not having it - they had their own plans whether it was finding herbs, setting up business contacts & what they initially planned went by the wayside. We were playing in a soap box campaign so i let them do their own thing but at least when they got back to it was ready. |
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