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Post by mao on Dec 5, 2017 12:08:27 GMT -5
I Love Love Love everything Vancian, I find it to be a very good engine for RPing. So do you have any house rules on this?
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 7, 2018 0:58:51 GMT -5
I was considering using magic points but it'd depend on the way I can work in cantrips to OD&D or B/X oriented games. Magic Points would be equal to the Magic-users Con stat + 1/per level + con bonus. Cantrips & first level spells would cost 1 MP, while 2nd level spells = 2 MP (and so on). They learn new spells based on a roll under-stat (Int for M-U/Wis for Clerics)modified by spell level but I am thinking once they get past level 5 spells their Int bonus can modify it back down. But once they learn the spell & it is in their book, they know it unless some memory altering magic comes into play or they lose levels from level drain.
I still have to think about it. They cannot cast spells above their level so such a system cannot be abused. A 10th level Magic-User will have to measure how they cast their spells & they can only cast the number of spells a day that they have they have MP to cast & the spells they memorized for the day. I haven't decided how to determine the number of spells they can memorize - it might be tied to MP total for the day. You can memorize a large number of cantrips & first level spells you have power to cast or the limit could be your Int stat (which I am seriously considering).
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Post by mao on Feb 7, 2018 17:44:54 GMT -5
I was considering using magic points but it'd depend on the way I can work in cantrips to OD&D or B/X oriented games. Magic Points would be equal to the Magic-users Con stat + 1/per level + con bonus. Cantrips & first level spells would cost 1 MP, while 2nd level spells = 2 MP (and so on). They learn new spells based on a roll under-stat (Int for M-U/Wis for Clerics)modified by spell level but I am thinking once they get past level 5 spells their Int bonus can modify it back down. But once they learn the spell & it is in their book, they know it unless some memory altering magic comes into play or they lose levels from level drain. I still have to think about it. They cannot cast spells above their level so such a system cannot be abused. A 10th level Magic-User will have to measure how they cast their spells & they can only cast the number of spells a day that they have they have MP to cast & the spells they memorized for the day. I haven't decided how to determine the number of spells they can memorize - it might be tied to MP total for the day. You can memorize a large number of cantrips & first level spells you have power to cast or the limit could be your Int stat (which I am seriously considering). The Princeton University Convention, Prince Con, has the best point system I have ever seen. Ill try and dig up a link |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 7, 2018 19:37:06 GMT -5
Cool, I'd love to see it Mao.
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Post by mao on Feb 10, 2018 15:53:22 GMT -5
Cool, I'd love to see it Mao. here you go www.princecon.org/ look at the con books section, Magic system is phenomenal. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 10, 2018 16:48:44 GMT -5
Cool, I'd love to see it Mao. here you go www.princecon.org/ look at the con books section, Magic system is phenomenal. Which one of over 40 pdfs should I look at?  |
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Post by mao on Feb 10, 2018 16:54:09 GMT -5
go for the one that is 2 years back or so, 41? 40?
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Post by Dartanian on Feb 10, 2018 23:50:47 GMT -5
go for the one that is 2 years back or so, 41? 40? I checked and 40 and 41 both have what appears to be the same section on spell points. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 11, 2018 0:46:41 GMT -5
I'll read through them asap, thanks Mao.
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Post by mao on Feb 11, 2018 14:48:41 GMT -5
I'll read through them asap, thanks Mao. Your welcome, If I didnt love the Vancian system so much , I would have switched to these 20 years ago. Very fun to play. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 11, 2018 21:01:35 GMT -5
The thing is even though I started with AD&D 1e, we moved to Palladium Fantasy soon afterwards & I ran Cyberspace -so i never got into Vancian magic. Even when I played in 3.5 we had catrips & I moved to Rolemaster 2 soon after that. Vancian magic never got its hooks into me.
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Post by mao on Feb 12, 2018 12:12:10 GMT -5
I think prob the reason I am into Vancian is that I read the books before I learned D&D, The books are too cool.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Feb 12, 2018 16:19:54 GMT -5
I only read Vance's Lyonesse trilogy which I loved but I never read the Dying Earth series of yet; but I got into D&D & other RPGs before I did so. That said there is nothing wrong with Vancian magic. I have to admit I am more inspired by the works by David & Leigh Eddings & Steve Brust when it comes to magic. I can also toss in Michael Moorcock's Elric/Eternal Warrior stories inferred magic; summoning demons & Elemental spirits and binding into items & constructions will play an important place in my campaigns.
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Post by fearghus on Mar 21, 2018 20:36:11 GMT -5
If you can get a hold of the Vancian Magic Supplement, it has a couple of Dying Earth stories. It was on the Greg Gorgonmilk blog, but it seems to be down.
On a different note, I lucked into a copy of The Eyes of the Overworld last weekend at 1/2 price books for $2.
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Post by True Black Raven on Mar 21, 2018 22:47:51 GMT -5
If you can get a hold of the Vancian Magic Supplement, it has a couple of Dying Earth stories. It was on the Greg Gorgonmilk blog, but it seems to be down. On a different note, I lucked into a copy of The Eyes of the Overworld last weekend at 1/2 price books for $2. I would love to have a copy of the Vancian Magic Supplement, sadly Greg Gorgonmilk's blog is either gone entirely or now marked private members only, I am not sure which. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 1:59:08 GMT -5
I prefer Vancian magic because in my opinion, the most interesting part of playing a magic-user is selecting your loadout of spells before the adventure.
That's why I've never played an MU past seventh or eighth level; once you have too many spell slots available, it stops being interesting to pick your spells. I'm working on a variant table to reduce the number of spells magic users have to keep things interesting.
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Post by hedgehobbit on Mar 22, 2018 10:16:51 GMT -5
That's why I've never played an MU past seventh or eighth level; once you have too many spell slots available, it stops being interesting to pick your spells. I'm working on a variant table to reduce the number of spells magic users have to keep things interesting. Back in 3e this was a huge problem, what with all the spells per day, the addition of 0 level spells, and multiclassing. So I just ruled that you only had to pick your spells for the first three levels of spells. For example, once you can cast fourth level spells, you are allowed to free cast all your first level spells. This kept the number of spells you needed to choose consistent (or close to it) regardless of MU level. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 12:25:22 GMT -5
That would make it even worse for me, though. It REDUCES the choices I have to make beforehand, which is the only interesting thing.
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Post by sixdemonbag on Mar 22, 2018 15:02:06 GMT -5
I'm working on a variant table to reduce the number of spells magic users have to keep things interesting. Maybe base one on the Cleric spell table up to top-level (i.e., 11th Level Wizard)? Something like: | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
That would reduce spell count considerably. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 24, 2018 12:13:11 GMT -5
I'm working on a variant table to reduce the number of spells magic users have to keep things interesting. Maybe base one on the Cleric spell table up to top-level (i.e., 11th Level Wizard)? Something like: | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
That would reduce spell count considerably. @gronanofsimmerya, this looks like what you were looking for and would definitely make those spell slots more valuable and the decisions more difficult. |
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Post by magremore on Apr 14, 2018 7:03:54 GMT -5
If you can get a hold of the Vancian Magic Supplement, it has a couple of Dying Earth stories. It was on the Greg Gorgonmilk blog, but it seems to be down. On a different note, I lucked into a copy of The Eyes of the Overworld last weekend at 1/2 price books for $2. I would love to have a copy of the Vancian Magic Supplement, sadly Greg Gorgonmilk's blog is either gone entirely or now marked private members only, I am not sure which. It’s not the full supplement, but there is a reformatted copy of the “DYING EARTH SPELLS FOR D&D by SHADRAC MQ” section at www.infinitedragons.com/files/dying-earth-cleric-1/Dying%20Earth%20Spells.pdf |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 14, 2018 7:32:30 GMT -5
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Apr 14, 2018 10:24:09 GMT -5
If you can get a hold of the Vancian Magic Supplement, it has a couple of Dying Earth stories. It was on the Greg Gorgonmilk blog, but it seems to be down. On a different note, I lucked into a copy of The Eyes of the Overworld last weekend at 1/2 price books for $2. I would love to have a copy of the Vancian Magic Supplement, sadly Greg Gorgonmilk's blog is either gone entirely or now marked private members only, I am not sure which. I posted a message via my G+ public to Greg to see if he still had it & is willing to share it. I'll let you know if I hear back from him & what he says. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Apr 14, 2018 10:25:43 GMT -5
I have to admit through reading through the OD&D rules, I am coming to appreciate Vancian Magic more & more.
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Post by True Black Raven on Apr 14, 2018 16:32:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 17:23:13 GMT -5
Maybe base one on the Cleric spell table up to top-level (i.e., 11th Level Wizard)? Something like: | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | - | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - | | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
That would reduce spell count considerably. @gronanofsimmerya , this looks like what you were looking for and would definitely make those spell slots more valuable and the decisions more difficult. It also does the "One Spell Per Level" think I was toying with. I would add the ruling that you can always fill a higher level spell slot with a lower level spell; that is, memorize SLEEP in place of a second level spell, for instance. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 14, 2018 18:12:41 GMT -5
@gronanofsimmerya , this looks like what you were looking for and would definitely make those spell slots more valuable and the decisions more difficult. It also does the "One Spell Per Level" think I was toying with. I would add the ruling that you can always fill a higher level spell slot with a lower level spell; that is, memorize SLEEP in place of a second level spell, for instance. I think that makes a lot of sense to do that too. |
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Post by mao on Sept 3, 2018 15:29:03 GMT -5
I have to admit through reading through the OD&D rules, I am coming to appreciate Vancian Magic more & more. This thread has a "Charm Person" spell that is cast on anyone entering. |
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Post by El Borak on Sept 4, 2018 17:12:21 GMT -5
I have to admit through reading through the OD&D rules, I am coming to appreciate Vancian Magic more & more. This thread has a "Charm Person" spell that is cast on anyone entering. Now why on earth would you say that? |
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Post by mao on Sept 8, 2018 11:08:09 GMT -5
This thread has a "Charm Person" spell that is cast on anyone entering. Now why on earth would you say that? I must spread the truth of Vancian, you heretic! |
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