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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 9, 2017 7:21:26 GMT -5
My next project is a Dark Dungeons / OSR campaign setting and sourcebook called Dark Knights. It is a complete sourcebook an rulebook for Chretien de Troyes style chivalric adventures.
It departs from Dark Dungeons in that it has its own set of character classes, rigorously adapted from Dark Dungeons and my own House of Darkness. However, it doesn't simply reiterate the same tables and rules, it is a rebuild from the ground up to encapsulate the specific chivalry adventure style, knights of the round table both "straight" and "silly", and the very specific types of monsters, outsiders and so on that are encountered.
It also directly addresses the cosmology of the chivalric cosmos, which whilst it is the same Dark Dungeons type cosmology does have some notable differences.
I am enjoying writing it very much, and I hope that this pleasure is conveyed to the reader when it's finished.
Even if people don't want to run it as a campaign I am fairly sure there will be parts of it some people will want to use.
Studying this stuff intensely at a tertiary level it really is very captivating, and remarkably strange when you get right down to it.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 12, 2017 7:42:47 GMT -5
Update - buried in the writing and research at the moment. Added some classes - Princess, Knave, Marmarite, Monk of the Weapon Archives, Knight Errant. I am overhauling or replacing some rules as well, based on earliest available archaeo-campaign information. For example Turning or Commanding undead functions as a 2d6 roll versus the hit dice of all undead in range rather than using a table. I am also eliminating duplicated entries where possible by providing summaries in preambles. Immortals are complete based on the Figures appearing in chivalric romances. I am using the 1540 ptolemaic map of England as the basis for the game world Logres, overlaid with 24 mile hexes. There is an awful lot to do but it is fun to do it, even with the lack of a good raw text or document version of Dark Dungeons to get text from. Magic has also been totally changed, to allow unique Wizards of whatever type. One huge difference is that all Wizards (Magic-User types) need some kind of focus, and they utilise competitive rolls and a pool of power or points. Their knowledge of different spells is the compendium from which they can attempt effects or outcomes, but once they exhaust themselves, that's it for the day. I am aiming to reflect television, movie, old chivalric romances and other "primary sources" in this respect rather than simply do yet another retroclone. Likewise Monks, who are definitely more Monty Python and the Holy Grail. They come from monasteries or other enclaves that keep secret knowledge of armaments called wonder weapons and also suppress all other forbidden knowledge for the Immortals. I have added what were optional statistics for this setting - Education, Social Status and Physical Beauty. Elemental or Inner Planes have been dramatically expanded to include Love, Hate, Purple Twilight, Shadow, Light, Madness, Sanity and so on to again reflect the source materials better. The classic "big four" elements are still there. Outer planes are simply referred to as other dimensions although the Outer planes term is in the book so as to allow OSR players to understand exactly what is meant. They include the home dimensions of all Immortals, Demons and other extraplanars. Also places like the Mirror Dimension, Ginnungagap, Utgard and so on. Monsters include Human (Police) who appear from their own parallel world once a heinous murder is committed by player characters, and many other Human (type) monsters. I am also adding all the monsters that appear in the chivalric romances and associated folklore and legends, which will certainly mean that the game has threats of all levels. Ditto Giants. The layout and style of the book is very different, not intentionally but due to the approach taken. There are a LOT of tables and charts. Maybe that's just me and my own background in the sort of RPGs that had a lot of random rolling. If I detect that it's getting out of hand I will try and do a self-intervention. However because this is an all in one rulebook and setting for a campaign I am aiming to try and capture the old school Glorantha approach before it all turned to custard. That's one reason the "game world" is just the bizarro Logres version of reality, where characters adventure in Arthurianoid Britain but can go literally right off the edge of the map, possibly never to be seen again or perhaps simply arrested by police and taken to a different Earth to be booked and processed. More updates next time I surface to regenerate. LO
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Post by Admin Pete on Aug 12, 2017 13:09:36 GMT -5
Fascinating! Reading with interest.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 17, 2017 2:03:12 GMT -5
200 some pages done. The world is literally the 1540 map of Logres, hex overlaid in 24 mile hex and 8 mile hex. I am using hexographer to do detailed overland hex maps with the terrain types. Character classes half done, character races (classes) done in outline need to do the tables.
Quests and Questions and all adventure related stuff still to do although copious notes.
Monsters - going to be a big section so I am using tables to set out variants rather than waste a page per nearly identical monster. Using some anachronistic names since using local unpronouncable welsh and gael names is a bit pedantic for no gain. There will notable absences but many many new critters as well as unique entries such as certain kings, knights, monsters (tarrasque, gargouille, etc.) and many a bizarre dragon.
Bloodlines chapter in outline - charts for Stripling (level 1 characters) to roll on if their Background roll directs them to or if they play an automatically noble character such as a Princess class.
Wizard section is half done, needs huge list of Paths completed. Paths are sets of achievements required to unlock new spells, abilities or bonuses. Have done long list of possible Focuses for Wizards, listed the types of Magic from A - Air to Z - Zoological. The spell list is in a table format and will be enormous. The spell system runs on pools of power, Faith for Clerics and Power for Wizards and Elves. Spells are modular, some "named" spells like Zog's Bog and so on but many addons which act as modifiers to range, shape, duration and so on. A Fireball could be Call Fire + Sphere + Boost. Big plus to this so far is, all possible magical items are now logically able to be done within the same system with no fudging or "it just is" rules.
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Post by Admin Pete on Aug 17, 2017 8:07:26 GMT -5
Do you have a small piece of the map you can post as a teaser?
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 17, 2017 17:45:52 GMT -5
This is a slice of the wip map from which the local areas will be derived. This is part of the 1540 map the game world is literally directly based on, complete with typos - for example Rushen Keep from our world is Kushen Keep in Dark Knights.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 18, 2017 18:25:55 GMT -5
Taking a break from the existing chapter writing to start putting down some paragraphs in Transformations, Endgames and Quests and Questions. Transformations - transformations whether physical mental (as we would call it) or spiritual are common in the romances. I am doing a devoted chapter to it. Some of the things so far: MADNESS There are super clearly defined types of Madness in the romances and legends and I am going with them. Also, it is less confronting in some ways that yet another game with a dry as dust, and somewhat hateful, irrupitous section on real world mental illness. Madness excuses otherwise inexcusable behaviour in a character. It is tied to Shame, which can have dire consequences in terms of social status and charisma for an adventurer, but it also lets a character act "out of character" without penalty in some cases. For example a character that must be Lawful by class can be Chaotic whilst suffering Madness and still be their class. TRANSEXUALISM Qadmonic tales swap the sex of a character or even more than one character. Rules for this are provided but really it doesn't have as much of a physical effect as a role effect. Medieval transexualism also applies to jobs and classes so a big tough male knight can become a big tough female knight (and there is no gender restriction on knighthood in Dark Knights anyway) or become a feminine loving mothering knight. It's a little more subtle than just "hilarious" drag queen antics which personally I despise anyway. It's more to do with roles permitted in society, embracing Amor or Strife and so on. MONSTERISM Turning into hideous monsters that have a heart of gold. People who are hideous monsters spiritually but look like an angel from the outside. Guising (disguise) by Immortals. Genuine horror story type infiltration by some of the most dangerous, violent and predatory monsters in the game. ... The Endgames chapter includes the Settling Down stuff, Dominions, but also many other broader Endgames, such as Quest for the Holy Grail, the "future" of Logres ie going from 932 SY when the game is set in the "present day" to the far future of the 1300s or the unimaginable future of 1932 or even later. Also since there is a Bloodlines chapter detailing families, inheritances and the rest, players will be encouraged to roll up different characters sometimes rather than shoehorn the same character into stuff they just wouldn't want to do. Other Endgames I'm mapping out are things like the Logresians discovering that their world is an iteration of our world (or something like it), trailing the Police, Camera Crew or Historians back to their home parallel world, a 1970s technological Earth, campaigns where people go Elric and kill all the Immortals, campaigns where a real War breaks out - similar to the Mort D'Arthur, and endgames where Arthur and the big hitter knights all die, leaving a power vacuum. There is a timeline back to Empire times, so time travel back and forth as in some of the old tales is quite possible. It's just that time travel isn't going to take you to 2500 AD, more likely the 1900s at latest, which is when many stories about time travel by knights were written, oddly enough. I think it's important since I want to do one gigantic book on this and that's it, to put every detail I can into it. Firstly, it's value for money. Secondly, "no sequels". Thirdly, I personally adore that sort of gamebook that literally has every single thing in it. Just reading a big tome can be fun even if you never run the full monty. For example with 98 different Wizard Focuses, 30 odd types of magic, modular spell crafting, no one will ever be able to do all the Wizard stuff, even in a hundred years of play. I am configuring it so people can have a straight no silliness Arthurian Britain, a monty python enhanced campaign but not too silly, or just go for broke and make it extremely silly SOMETIMES but still playable.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 18, 2017 18:31:31 GMT -5
Quests and Questions This is the adventure chapter. Structuring stories, awarding xp, awarding Treasures, other types of quest, fitting different quests together in a campaign, and leaving time for updates, marriage, children, healing and training. Since all characters start as Striplings with a Downtime Activity they do when not adventuring the later lives of the characters develop organically from that.
Treasures don't have a type in Dark Knights, they are in lists such as Minor Hoard, Major Hoard and Wonders. Wonder weapons are the forbidden technology that Monks guard in their monasteries, and there are unique treasures. Broken Swords such as the Grail Sword have a certain number of pieces to collect and reforge. Unique and rare items are tracked so if one person has piece #14 of the Grail Sword no one else can have it at the same time.
Freeform play takes place away from Quests and take the form of Questions all gamers ask or are asked: Who lives there? What is my character doing while she's in town? Can I just go and collect the stuff instead of buy it? What WAS in that book the Gatekeeper kept reading from? These freeform quests take on a life of their own, get played, end and the main story of the campaign continues.
If there's no main story in the campaign then adventures centre on whatever settlement most people come from or the players agree which settlement they all begin in or near. Since the map and accompanying descriptions literally describe the whole kingdom, this will work well. It was one of the single strongest features of old school Glorantha for example.
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Post by Admin Pete on Aug 19, 2017 8:28:37 GMT -5
What does the word "Qadmonic" mean? I was unable to find a definition.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 19, 2017 16:53:07 GMT -5
Qadmon = Adam Qadmon, the divine hermaphrodite from medieval alchemy and the Qabbala. Qadmonic beings have a HARMONIOUS form of androgeny ie no point and laugh at the freak aspect, no hate, but rather the ultimate union of the sexes. One sees it in some manuscripts along with square and compass, cup and sword, pool and tree, and so on.
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Post by Admin Pete on Aug 20, 2017 7:18:52 GMT -5
Qadmon = Adam Qadmon, the divine hermaphrodite from medieval alchemy and the Qabbala. Qadmonic beings have a HARMONIOUS form of androgeny ie no point and laugh at the freak aspect, no hate, but rather the ultimate union of the sexes. One sees it in some manuscripts along with square and compass, cup and sword, pool and tree, and so on. Thank you for clearing that up.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 20, 2017 20:46:33 GMT -5
Back to adding spells... Herculean task but once begun it must be completed. Added social status affecting spells such as Induce Belch, Induce Bowel Movement etc. that cause a Faux Pas and possible social status damage. Also added the modular "affects another spell" spells, of which there are many. Most of the "normal" BECMI spells will make it in other than ones created by modular spells such as Fireball, which is Call Fire + Sphere + Distance. Plus side of that approach is that any of the minor Call... effects can be the basis of eg a -ball spell so this is a very easy way to create 14 or 15 different variants of the basic Fireball type spell, be it Iceball, Thornball, Earthball, Acidball, Bleachball or whatever.
Also adding the peculiar spells which defy easy categorisation.
Since Dark Knights wizards may end up with "useless" spell lists, this also drives the Reagents rule- Wizards and Elves (and others?) can make a Reagent, which is a physical one-use (usually) magic item that releases a spell effect.
The single biggest driver to the revised magic rules is to accurately recreate Merlin, Morgan le Fay (Fay [Elf subtype] class), Nimue, Klingsor and other "one-off" wizards, and also supporting things like Alchemy, Enchanting, Glamour and so on.
By contrast the Cleric spells are absolutely straightforward verging on the point and click, quite deliberately. Playing a wizard in Dark Knights will be intellectual and involve some thinking and creativity whereas the Clerics are casting their spells as part of their "day job" whilst their real calling is convert other character and smash threats to their Immortal. Given the difference, didn't want Clerics to come off like me-too wizards.
On another note, amusing that the fighting Monk class in Dark Knights is supported historically by violent thugs like Saint Columba who was intricately involved in the Game of Thrones style machinations in Ulster of the 6th century...
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 24, 2017 7:08:56 GMT -5
400 pages in, it's taken shape, still a mighty amount to write. My real deadline is mid September because I should be announcing some very exciting licensed work at that point, so Dark Knights to be over and done and at the printers / Drivethru by then.
Playtesting groups so far have liked it, identified some real howlers that needed to be fixed. It is playing very differently to standard OD&D (not that there really ever was such a thing) and has led to many side adventures and expansions to play along the lines of Braunstein rather than just dungeon hacking.
All the dungeons are "historical" - Nottingham actually does have a cave system under it, the surrounding forest really was the original Greenwood, Eboracum (York) actually does have Roman tunnels and catacombs, and so on. That has definitely added a welcome dimension to play.
I should have anticipated how Game of Thrones oriented the youngest players would be, and how totally out of the loop re Monty Python and the Holy Grail they are.
Wizards - no two have been remotely alike so far. Like, not even similar.
The shock of what the Immortals are like in this game was awesome too.
The Background rolls and the need to interact with petty nobles and their courts is making the single biggest difference in play, particularly due to courtly love, social warfare using snobbery and Shame. Madness is about to be inflicted on the first player character, so their need to rebalance their humours is going to be an acid test for the rules.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 26, 2017 7:03:11 GMT -5
Madness rules worked well, that group is now heading for the Edge of the Map and the Ethereal Plane, en route to the Fundamental Plane of Dryness. The Humours of the body cause Madness and the only way this group has to fix the Madness is to take the character to an elemental plane of opposite humour so the humours rebalance.
The other group has a Knight with a Grievous Wound due to Shame. He isn't high enough level to have his own lands, so because his Grievous Wound will gradually poison whatever hex he is in- the group are now pariahs who have to continually be on the move. Sad state of affairs. This group also has two Thief characters and a Dragon Maiden Princess, so they are one big accident waiting to happen. For some random reason they have ended up as Emancipators ie anti-Slavers so their main villains are the Merchants' Guild and the Slavers Guild both of which operate out of London.
But overall, it's working. The two play testing groups are totally separate, each based in a different gaming store, and the one with the Madness character is somewhat more light hearted and fantastical, whilst the group with the Wounded Knight is turning very grim and gritty, bordering on the gothic horror. Probably because their Wizard player keeps trying to get as much Y type magic (Yog Sothoth) as possible and their cleric is Chaotic meaning her spell list is filled with the reverse effect spells and unpleasant spells. Plus the whole no mercy for slavers thing. To avoid getting betrothed to anyone else the Knight character and the Princess character have wangled through roleplaying to be betrothed to each other, so that has effectively negated the threat of arranged marriage for the Princess and has enobled the Knight since all Princesses, even the poor anddown on their luck ones come from a Bloodline ie are noble by birth.
It is working.
Will everyone out there like it? I sincerely doubt it. But I am doing my best to take an approach like, "what if in 1978 the arthurian and whimsical stuff won out over the joyless book keeping?"
There's still lots of random and non-random charts. To keep that under control the last chapter in the book is simply called Lists, and it is what it says. Price lists, height and weight lists, lists of inner planes, lists of this lists of that. I figure - if you DON'T want that level of detail - it's all in one chapter and easily avoided.
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Post by limeodyssey on Aug 28, 2017 22:59:01 GMT -5
Play testing phase is over, looks like each shop will have one or more groups playing in some sort of ongoing way without my involvement. One group is much more miniatures oriented than the other group too, which was another interesting element. Now just back to writing the final 100 or more pages and going back through revising stuff.
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Post by limeodyssey on Sept 6, 2017 4:00:54 GMT -5
700 pages done. It's beyond the capacity of my cheap book printer to do a book that big so unfortunately there will be no super cheap print option, just amazon and lulu.
The PDF won't be free but I will keep it as cheap as possible given the sheer size of the manuscript.
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Post by Admin Pete on Sept 6, 2017 7:00:04 GMT -5
Wow! 700 pages! Do you have a word count? I cannot image writing that much in one go. I could run my game every day, but writing like that takes a lot of labor. Happy to see that you enjoyed it, as noted above.
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Post by limeodyssey on Sept 9, 2017 18:13:15 GMT -5
Never bother with word counts I will do one right now... (excludes Dark Dungeons text since I didn't "write" that) Word Count: 151,878 - beautiful symetrical number. Rewriting and adding monsters was quite fun, but a very big job. For example replacing Wights with Aftergangers as they were actually called, rewriting various Types of monster - since all of each Type in Classic have grouped abilities it saves a LOT of space not to cut and paste or write over the same exact paragraph in each entry. It's struck me how different the medieval world view really was (duh no kidding) but it has brought it home to me. Likewise, using "Logres" as the setting, I have detailed Nottingham, its caves, done encounters and cave charts, described some other locations, but really as with classic good Glorantha some towns and space need to be blank or undescribed so you can have your own personal world. But on the other hand, UNLIKE Glorantha, reference works are as a close as a search engine away - pick a town or river, search for info - get more dark age and medieval lore and history than you would EVER need. I have included the "dark side" of "good intent" Lawful religion as well in the form of describing St. Albans, a "day's march" from London Town. St. Albans had the most oppressive and in today's terms cruel and evil system of rulership - direct rule by Clerics and Monks - in England, and yes, in real life the Monks were a bit tasty in a fight and did indeed cudgel or beat up townsfolk who got "uppity" and peasants who complained at the backbreaking labour. So in amongst all the Chaotics and obviously dodgy and evil undead and supernaturals, you have a good old fashioned town run as a labour camp by the local Bishop, whose arrogance drives him to demand even kinds kneel for hours in penitence. The game isn't all just about killing Giants in the hills and Dragons in the forests, there is a lot of human based interaction and what I call Social Warfare. Play testing showed that players "got it" in terms of seeing the perfectly legal, extremely rich but definitely evil Slavers' Guild - and their real masters, the Merchants' Guild as every bit as bad or worse than a nest of vampires or cannibal Twrchan ("Orcs" I guess - pig-faced men). The Immortals have become the fairy tale intruders I wanted them to be, turning up in person or using mortal form disguises to mess with people or join in during battle, or just pose as friends and teachers. And the Immortals are almost all, other than Wotan, Merlin and Morgan le Fay, very unfamiliar to people- Malvestiez and Pesches for example - Malvestiez is female and the Immortal of Evil, and Pesches is male and the Immortal of Sin. I think it's different enough to find its place at the OSR round table, but the market will be the ultimate arbiter of that I guess.
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Post by limeodyssey on Sept 14, 2017 4:48:09 GMT -5
Added to the Endgames chapter. Endgames are essential in heroic fantasy, be it Robin Hood or King Arthur so there is a whole chapter on them. I have a table of King Arthur alternative worlds and their endgames, added a couple new ones and also added some "out there" ideas about the identity of King Arthur for different campaigns including an unexpectedly dead King Arthur who must then henceforth be impersonated by a player character and similar odd ideas that could really launch a campaign.
Chivalric fiction had a LOT of shapeshifters and impersonators, and a LOT of anonymous or amnesiac Knights so that gets some play too.
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Post by limeodyssey on Sept 17, 2017 4:18:06 GMT -5
Finishing the book. Completing the Treasures chapter with the various lists - currently writing Retainers entries. Retainers are living treasures be they monster allies, prisoners and hostages, adventuring companions or even weirder characters. Many are direct from the Arthurian tales, others are from other inspirational sources. Because treasure has no "type" in Dark Knights and is not automatically found every time a monster explodes into a bag of coins, players have to really hunt for the stuff on Quests or do Quests to earn treasures the GM has chosen. It legislates the control of loot for GMs instead of the open secret that most GMs use non-random loot.
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Post by limeodyssey on Sept 22, 2017 17:55:12 GMT -5
Final lap- strongholds, courtly duties, sake and soke for player characters, realm events (which links back to the Endgames chapter) and finally - adding to the last chapter, Lists.
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Post by limeodyssey on Oct 16, 2017 1:21:39 GMT -5
800 pages.
Final proofreading and editing which is quite a job in itself. However, I am satisfied overall wit hthis book and I am hopeful that it will find a receptive audience with some gamers. It is intended to be timeless and not requiring of any updates or expansions except those its users create.
I reserve the right to create adventures and so on for it but other than that it is a world entire, in the style of the original 1979-1982 campaigns and sourcebooks married to their own rules booklets which accompanied the flavor text and background on the world. I have simply integrated the system and the world, original Glorantha style.
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Post by limeodyssey on Oct 26, 2017 16:14:00 GMT -5
Still being edited and checked. To get the book out this year I will be making some choices as to how much of the exhaustive lists to include in the final Lists chapter.
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Post by limeodyssey on Nov 26, 2017 18:59:23 GMT -5
Still going, editing and corrections, updating from playtesting. Since I don't want to do later editions this edition may increase in size one final time
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Post by Mighty Darci on Dec 22, 2017 20:32:48 GMT -5
Still being edited and checked. To get the book out this year I will be making some choices as to how much of the exhaustive lists to include in the final Lists chapter. What type of things were you going to leave out? If you are not going to publish them separately, maybe down the road someday you could post them. This is a really cool project, I am sorry that I don't have much time to look things over these days. A little time off for the holidays and then back to school.
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